My only hiccup with horses

Tanker-yanker
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My only hiccup with horses

Postby Tanker-yanker » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:17 pm

Dogs absolutely need to be with humans. It should be a crime to starve a dog for their human's affection.

Some cats can take humans or leave them. It's not such a crime to say have barn cats that have no real human bond as long as they are cared for well and if they choose to be petted that's fine.

I think horses would rather have other horses and freedom to live their life and would be just fine without people.

I feel that I am forcing myself on horses and I do not want to feel that way or to do that.

I have absolutely struggled with this during my absence from horses.

Is there some horse out there that needs me or am I forcing myself on them? This is the only thing I have to come to grips with.

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby Sue B » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:49 pm

My horses live at home, on pasture 24/7. I do not walk out and interact with them every day, and they are fine with that. But, if I go out of town for more than a few days, Rudy whinnies and runs to me when I get home, even if dh and ds are home to care for them. So yeah, there are horses who "love" their owners.

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby Srhorselady » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:14 pm

Horses like humans are individuals. Horses as herd animals DO need other horses. However, my 30 year old thoroughbred Freckles has always been a people horse. He became a jumper because he leaped out of a paddock twice to join people in a more active part of his layup barn. He will leave his food and horse companions to come to the front of his stall when someone is in the barn aisle. He nickers to be the one taken out when he sees a person with a halter. He comes running from his turnout when called. Some of the other horses will do some of these things some of the time, but with Freckles it is consistent. He just likes to interact with people. Also some horses have favorite people too. Cowboy, my buckskin Quarterhorse, loves his former owner, my friend Alice who comes to see him regularly. He tolerates me since he knows I'm the source of food :D To some degree it is a mutual thing. The more attention you give the horse the more they return it, but not totally.

Tanker-yanker
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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby Tanker-yanker » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:46 pm

Thank you. One of my horses would come when I whistled. He did seem to like me.

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby Angfreda » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:40 pm

Yo and I were like this... X
He was not a snuggly sort, unless he was sick, but the trust he put in me said everything because he was one who felt he had to take care of himself most of the time.

There's something really special about a horse who adopts you as their person. Melly came to see me that way a bit too, before he died.
I miss that most of all about horses and barn life, but knowing that it's something that comes after lots of time and investment of caring... I know I'm unlikely to ever experience it again, and I think that makes me saddest of all about losing both of them, knowing that having a relationship like that is over.

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby StraightForward » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:28 pm

Sue B wrote:My horses live at home, on pasture 24/7. I do not walk out and interact with them every day, and they are fine with that. But, if I go out of town for more than a few days, Rudy whinnies and runs to me when I get home, even if dh and ds are home to care for them. So yeah, there are horses who "love" their owners.


The horse I had as a teenager - if I missed more than one day at the barn, would take a look at my when I showed up, turn around and put his butt in my face. :lol: On normal days, he would nicker and run to me, even though I didn't feed him, and worked him pretty hard. My current horses - I think they could take or leave me, but then I don't have the hours to spend bonding with them like when I was in high school.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby kande50 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:33 pm

Tanker-yanker wrote:
I think horses would rather have other horses and freedom to live their life and would be just fine without people.

I feel that I am forcing myself on horses and I do not want to feel that way or to do that.

I have absolutely struggled with this during my absence from horses.

Is there some horse out there that needs me or am I forcing myself on them? This is the only thing I have to come to grips with.


I spent a lot of time clicker training the last two horses I worked with, and that cured my growing discomfort with horse-human relationships. Which makes sense, because my horses are now working to earn rewards way more often than they're working to avoid aversives.

I think the same thing can be accomplished in more traditional ways as long as the aversives are used carefully, and the horse really does have the freedom (and knows he has the freedom) to say, "No" and his wishes will be respected--because it doesn't take long for any organism to figure out that it does no good to say no if it only results in more aversives.

But anyway, you might be interested in reward based training, because most of those who are into it got into it because they had the same reservations you've expressed.

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby LeoApp » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:58 pm

Srhorselady wrote: my 30 year old thoroughbred Freckles has always been a people horse. He will leave his food and horse companions to come to the front of his stall when someone is in the barn aisle. He nickers to be the one taken out when he sees a person with a halter. He comes running from his turnout when called. Some of the other horses will do some of these things some of the time, but with Freckles it is consistent. He just likes to interact with people. Also some horses have favorite people too.


My horse was just like this. He adored me and I adored him. If he was at the far end of his pasture he would come GALLOPING to me. Sometimes he would greet me with a whinny but he always had soft nickers for me. He loved people in general. Horses that really engage with people get rewarded by being given more attention by people. So it's a win-win!

Some horses ARE aloof and not as trusting of people. But I think most of the time that can be overcome with a lot of positive interaction.

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby lorilu » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:16 am

Get to know an Iberian horse. They LOVE people. (stereotype but true for the three I have owned/own, and others I have known.)

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orono
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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby orono » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:58 am

Plenty of horses 'need you', but they don't show affection the way dogs do. Also, since they can be a bit standoffish, it usually takes a long time to form a very strong bond with them. I find something magical happens at year 3, where you become BFFs.

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby Minz » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:04 pm

My first two horses were snuggle bugs that loved to be groomed and fussed over, which was great when I was young. I could spend hours playing around. Cadie is definitely a "talk to the hoof lady" kind of girl. She loves to work, but then she wants to get back out with her friends. NOW. Lol.
The only exception to that is if I have been sick for a long time and she hasn't seen me. Occasionally the cancer has kept me from the barn for months at a time. When I come back, Cadie is very cautious with me, and very protective. She won't let the other horses near me, and when I lead her, she walks head down beside me like a 35year old horse. (She is 17 and a pain in the buttmost of the time. Lol)

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby exvet » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:32 pm

My experience has been across the board but I breed for and have had far more horses that are what I call human-oriented. Mine have generally known and accepted that I was/am the boss mare. They all come when called or come even if I don't ask them to LOL. They all whinny when they see me. Of course I'm the food lady along with being the boss mare so that has a bit to do with it. They all generally look to fill my pocket if they get scared or frightened. I've had those that were more aloof and independent but still had a great bond and then the few who I just simply didn't develop a bond with at all. Those have been far, far fewer in number in my lifetime. Horses are social animals far more like dogs than cats. I find their social structure to be not too dissimilar to dogs. Whether or not horses can do without me is far less of a concern to me because at the end of the day I know I can't do without them......never have had a moment without one. I hope I go before I have to realize the day that I no longer have a horse in my life.
Last edited by exvet on Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby Sue B » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:24 pm

Minz! Happy to see you back! :D :D :D

Exvet, me too. I have had periods when I could not own a horse (like during vet school) and i pray those times are behind me for good. Hope to see you in the Century Club! ;)

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby Tsavo » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:59 pm

I think you pose a false dichotomy. Horses probably do prefer the company of other horses but that doesn't mean they don't enjoy human interaction also.

At this point I would have to design an experiment on how to separate whether my horse's obvious interest in being with me and working with me is really about all the treats. I strongly suspect it is. But so what? It's still a win-win.

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby exvet » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:57 pm

Sue B, I was lucky while in vet school because I was able to keep my horse. He got injured during my fourth year and the senior clinician in large animal let me board him at the vet school so I could treat my horse and continue my elective rotation that I was on at the time.....of course it was my second time through equine. Once I learned that my horse was injured I went to the senior clinician to ask to drop the rotation since it was an elective and explained why - my horse was being pasture-boarded over an hour away and I needed to treat him twice a day, hose his leg off twice a day and re-bandage (I was going to camp out there). The clinician looked around and said, "You're the only bloody student on rotation who isn't afraid of horses..........and you can bloody ride as well as handle the stallions. No, I cannot let you out of your rotation. That would be a mistake; but, you can bring your bloody damn horse here. We'll take him in as a teaching animal and I'll give him back to you at the end of the rotation." Most students hated that clinician because he wasn't the easiest or kindest of people; but, he was definitely my 'hero' of sorts and one of the best leg men who wasn't a surgeon that I've ever known.

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby kande50 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:45 pm

Tsavo wrote:I think you pose a false dichotomy. Horses probably do prefer the company of other horses but that doesn't mean they don't enjoy human interaction also.


At this point I would have to design an experiment on how to separate whether my horse's obvious interest in being with me and working with me is really about all the treats. I strongly suspect it is. But so what? It's still a win-win.[/quote]

It would be a tough question to sort out, because I do think horses get to a point where they feel they have no choice so appear to accept whatever comes their way (learned helplessness/suppression).

I also just read that cortisol levels in manure samples correlate with cortisol levels in blood samples, which would make cortisol measurement easier, anyway.

Interestingly though, the study I skimmed through did find that as horse's behavior started to become suppressed his cortisol levels dropped too, which could explain some of the experimental results that just didn't seem like they could be accurate.

I also suspect that safety is such a huge reward for horses that they'll put up with a lot of discomfort as long as they feel safer, and that could be a complicating factor when trying to figure out if a horse would choose to interact under different circumstances.

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby Chisamba » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:02 pm

I do not always have the same perspective as others, but one thing i do know is that the life of a wild herd animal is not without stresses. We had several antelope herds on the farm in zambia. Crocodiles attacked them when they went to drink, leopard, lion and lesser predators challenged them and their young, wild fires destroyed their environment, dry season threaten them with starvation, and of course, now that there are roads , many are hit by incidental vehicles. On top of this, some herds co exist, but other challenge each other for the same food source. The males fight hard in the early parts of breeding season. What is my point? Well, perhaps we do stress horses a bit with our requests from them, we perhaps ride them a hour a day, and at times they may not get large enough turn out. I try to make sure my horses are in possession of a large enough turn out to roam. What do we offer in exchange, freedom from predation, no need to search for food or water, and most often we turn them out in groups that are non combative. This may not be true of stallions who have a harder life.

I think that domestication is probably not the worst thing that we did to equids, the fact that there were zero original wild horses left shows that most likely if we had not domesticated them they would be extinct.

However, i do believe we owe it to domestic animals to treat them well and ethically, and to always attempt to listen to them, to avoid major mistakes.

Having said that, horses do seem to respond well to people who act like a boss who is not a prick

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby heddylamar » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:43 am

Chisamba wrote:horses do seem to respond well to people who act like a boss who is not a prick


All of my horses (dogs too) have done extremely well with this. Consistency direction and a firm but kind hand set clear boundaries and expectations.

Works well with kids and coworkers too.

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby Benatus » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:52 pm

Horses are prey animals so herds are vital, it’s instinctual.

Cat’s are solitary in their wild state, at least the ones domesticated cats come from. Domestication can’t erase that, but there are a lot of cats that don’t follow the mold.

Dogs are pack animals. They thrive on the social companionship cats don’t necessarily need and horses do need, but sometimes don’t need it in the same way.

It’s like domestication has alloyed those traits and inserted a trait that allows them to put up with our nonsense: leaving them alone all day (dogs), crating/stabling, viewing us as a herd/pack leader, butting up with our abuse (from my reading wolves don’t take that sh1t). Cat’s are like ha! This is working out! (Though cats then and now are treated like 2nd class pets - barn cats, ppl putting them outside at night, letting them kill all manner of wildlife)

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby Ryeissa » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:49 pm

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Re: My only hiccup with horses

Postby Linden16 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:28 pm

My horses definitely love to see me. I board them out and right now with work being insane, I don’t get out to the barn as often as I would like. When I get to the stable and call their names, they whinny back and Ehren always trots to me, immediately, no matter what she is doing. Even in the pasture, if I whistle for her or call her, she GALLOPS straight to me. Coal Harbour is a little less enthusiastic but does come when I call. They adore attention and I can tell from their expressions and behaviour that they do feel joy when I am around.


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