Quality of Life ?

Hayburner
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Quality of Life ?

Postby Hayburner » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:42 pm

Ok - so I'm back for more help in determining what the wise DDBB members view as a quality life for a horse.

I'm very torn in my decision making - I know many of us believe in better a day too soon than a day too late. But, I also don't want to make a decision I'll regret or feel I made without weighting everything out. I want to feel confident in my decision, I want to know I did the right thing and didn't do it way too soon. But, I also don't want to put off the inevitable, I don't want to wait for an emergency to make the decision. I want to do right by my old guy who has given me so much - I want to let him go peacefully surrounded by love. I don't want to do this to make my life easier and less stress filled. I know that come winter things will be a lot harder for him and the summer heat isn't much better.

Thanks

acheyarcher
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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby acheyarcher » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:49 pm

for me, if the tears come more than the smiles it is time

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musical comedy
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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby musical comedy » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:49 pm

I think that only you can decide this. I don't see how what others feel should matter to you. This subject has been brought up numerous times on forums over the years, and there are always different viewpoints. Make the decision you feel you can live with.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Tarlo Farm » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:01 pm

Yes ^^^

If you're here wondering, I believe it's time.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Rockabilly » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:04 pm

It kind of sounds like you want us to approve your decision and agree with you so the guilt won't be as bad. I think I replied to your previous post about this and I see you are still struggling with it, but as hard and awful as it is only you know the ethical and loving thing to do. I support you in this because I know the agony you're going through and I can feel even through your words how much you love your horse.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Abby Kogler » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:16 pm

I have too much experience on this topic.

Horses do not fear death.

Horses are their bodies. I mean, they just are, and they just are, in their bodies. I think that a horse that lives in chronic pain or distress of some kind is not a good state for them to be in. They may seem 'happy' but that might just be a human construct. I hate putting horses down, but I am very at peace with the decision when I have to do it, either for me or for a friend/client.

I am hardly some communicator person, but I have felt deep and moving senses of gratitude when I have put some horses down. Its happened so many times now I am no longer surprised and whether it is my imagination or not I take it as a gift.

I would much rather put a horse down when he still feels well enough to get up and down and move around and eat and hang with friends on a nice day then wait one extra second of discomfort or confusion, I have never regretted too early, I have regretted too late.

Hayburner
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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Hayburner » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:13 pm

It's a decision I don't want to make. I have only seen one horse put down and it was heart wrenching to watch, but the horse definitely needed to rest and be at peace. The day before I watched him try to get up and just couldn't. I don't know what was worse watching him frantic and struggling until the vet came and got him up or watching him PTS and my friends heart break.

Last week another horse was put down and I did not watch, I did not want to feel that pain again. It reminded me that my boys time will be coming. But when - when is it the right thing to do??

He has good days and he has ouchy and slow moving days that I manage with Equioxx, I manage his Cushings with Prascend and diet. I guess in the last year I have really noticed his slowing down and being tired. He hasn't layed down in years, though he still will get down and roll and some days he easily gets up other times it takes more for him to do it. It's more of a front end issue than a hock issue. He rests his head on the open window to sleep. His big joy is when he gets turned out and can visit with other horses, unfortunately he doesn't get out everyday. In the winter he rarely gets out as an icy sloped driveway is too much for him to manage. He's definitely not under weight, still looks forward to his meals, his turnout, and getting attention. I had a vet check his teeth recently and she would have guessed him to be in his 20's definitely not 31 !

I think about what will he miss out on in the life he's living- my answer is usually not much. He has to go on a semi dry lot due to the Cushings, apples and carrots are very limited too. He loves eating grass and I can't let him have very much. We haven't gone on trail rides in years due to an old pelvis injury. Those are things he enjoyed. Running loose, bucking, snorting and blowing were fun for him he doesn't get to do much of that anymore.

Recently my vet came out as when he rolled he pinched a nerve in his shoulder which had him pretty lame, I asked him about quality of life. He just looked at me and agreed - quality of life is important. That didn't answer my question, but putting a horse down is as he says the worst part of his job.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Chancellor » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:27 pm

The decision is never an easy one. Horses do not think about what they will be missing and I think it is wrong to personify our horses like that....they live in the here and now and don't think about the future.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Chisamba » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:00 pm

I personally prefer not to wait until its a crisis. Crisis is frightening to a horse, I do my best to let them go peacefully and well loved. The problem? how do you know when the crisis is coming, how do you give the the best quality of life without waiting for the crisis to tell you, the human, that it is time.

I have been a retirement place for a number of horses, things that i weigh when i consider quality of life, is the horse in daily pain, is the horse in daily distress, how is the horses general condition, do i find myself feeling sorry for the horse every time i look at it. the last question is the one my vet asked me. If i find myself feeling sorry for the horse almost all the time, they are no longer living a life of quality. if i occasionally feel sorry for the horse and at times all is well, it still has some quality of life.

Even if the time is right, it is still a sad occasion. you will not be able to avoid the sadness

Rockabilly
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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Rockabilly » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:34 pm

Chisamba wrote:
Even if the time is right, it is still a sad occasion. you will not be able to avoid the sadness


That is very true.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby heddylamar » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:21 am

Chisamba wrote:I personally prefer not to wait until its a crisis.


Agreed. I want to say goodbye BEFORE major trauma, not after.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby piedmontfields » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:14 am

heddylamar wrote:
Chisamba wrote:I personally prefer not to wait until its a crisis.


Agreed. I want to say goodbye BEFORE major trauma, not after.


Both very good points.

Also, good weather (good for that particular horse, a nice time of year for them to feel as good as they can) is a factor, I think. I would rather avoid a big weather change and possible discomfort.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby khall » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:10 pm

I've had to make this decision several times now. I've personally lost 5 of my own horses and also lost 2 very long term boarders. IMO it is so much easier on everyone when the decision is made before a catastrophic incident. 3 of mine were quality of life decisions and I have to say I was relieved afterwards to not have that worry hanging over my head. 2 I made the choice because they could no longer lay down, one from CA one from DJD in her knees. They had become narcoleptic from not getting proper REM sleep. They would fall in their stalls because of this and it scared me they were going to get hurt. Their appetites were fluctuating and it just was not in their best interest to keep them going. So I made the call. I was sad but relieved. I know nothing I did was going to change their quality of life, their infirmaries were just too advanced.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby PaulaO » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:20 pm

As Bob aged, I created a checklist. I mentally prepared for the time, rehearsing everything in my mind. I refused to allow his last day to be his worst. When the day came, I knew it was time. I went through with it and was relieved when it was over. Relieved for me, and him, that he would never be scared or in pain.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Hayburner » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:13 pm

Chisamba - Avoiding a crisis situation is what I am trying to avoid - I don't want him to be frantic/scared/hurt or stuck and have to wait for the vet to come. He's my first horse and definitely my heart horse - he deserves to pass with his dignity in tact. Ad for feeling sorry for him - I do feel bad that he can't get all the grass he wants, he can't have all the treats he wants. I feel bad when I look in his eyes and see how the last year has aged him. Some days the twinkle is still there -other days he looks tired to me.

Piedmont - Yes, good weather is a factor - since I know the winter will be hard on him by not going out - that's probably why I have started to think about all this. I want a day where I can let him graze to his hearts desire and not worry about how much grass he's getting. I am not a believer in keeping a horse stall bound - in his case movement is better for him.

Khall - I worry constantly about him, I'm lucky if I take 2 days a month off from seeing him. My life will dramatically change when I put him down. The worry will gone, my days will different - what I've done for the last 18 years will no longer be. I will eventually enjoy some freedom and be able to do things after work rather than always heading to the barn to check on him. I will still have my other horse to ride and deal with , but I don't HAVE to go see her everyday. With him, I HAVE to go and make sure all his needs are met. I don't want this to be about ME. So I am trying to see this through a set of eyes locked on him and not put myself in the picture.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Koolkat » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:27 pm

Hayburner, you so have my sympathies and condolences. Your beloved horse will not know the difference between being put down this afternoon or 3 months from now, all else being equal. My personal advice is sooner, their health can go south over night. I've put down 3 horses over the past year (one and then two), and two of those horses were relatively healthy and then suddenly had medical issues (feet in both cases). One in particular still bothers me (outside of just missing them terribly, but there's no avoiding that in any circumstances), as we couldn't get a backhoe and I had to wait a additional day. Her downward spiral was fast.

The painful anticipation can be dealt with. . . if you wait too long you will have to live much longer with the consequences of that decision. . .

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Hayburner » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:27 pm

I got a text this morning saying that the quarter piece of apple that I leave for the staff to put all his meds in is a bit too large and he had a hard time chewing it. It's not his teeth, I just had them checked in the past couple of months.
The last couple of days he's not finishing his grain and we do wet it down. When I brought him in from turnout - he was sooo slow...and walked so carefully. I watched him Sunday nite, rest his head on the window and try to sleep, every time he felt himself falling a bit, he'd catch himself. What happens the day he doesn't catch himself...

He's telling me it's time...as painful as it is - I need to listen to him.....my God if he falls on the driveway it would be bad, very bad.
I did give a call to the crematory as they like advance notice even if it's months in advance. My wanting to wait until fall may not be in his best interest.

Next call will be to my vet to check his schedule. I may have to do this next week....prolonging it won't make it easier on either of us. I'll schedule a week off of work to deal with all this....

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby WheresMyWhite » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:09 pm

{{Hayburner}}

My thoughts are with you as you work through this decision.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Koolkat » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:20 am

Hayburner wrote:I got a text this morning saying that the quarter piece of apple that I leave for the staff to put all his meds in is a bit too large and he had a hard time chewing it. It's not his teeth, I just had them checked in the past couple of months.
The last couple of days he's not finishing his grain and we do wet it down. When I brought him in from turnout - he was sooo slow...and walked so carefully. I watched him Sunday nite, rest his head on the window and try to sleep, every time he felt himself falling a bit, he'd catch himself. What happens the day he doesn't catch himself...

He's telling me it's time...as painful as it is - I need to listen to him.....



It's the gift of love, Hayburner. Many hugs. KK

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Josette » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:31 am

Wishing you peace during this time. Koolkat said it best - you let go for love.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby khall » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:19 am

It is our last gift to our friends, one that we can do to ease them in their time of need. Hugs to you Hayburner and Godspeed to your guy.

Hayburner
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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Hayburner » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:33 pm

Thank you all for your support.

Yesterday I made the call to the crematory. I called my vet this morning, he will call me back tomorrow. I think I held off calling when I knew he would be out starting his rounds so I could avoid it for another day.

I will also need to call his previous owner and let her know his time has come. Over the 18 years I've had him, I've occasionally called and let her know how he is and remind her of his birthday.

He didn't get out yesterday so I took him for some grass and fresh air - while he certainly enjoyed the grass, his steps were still very slow and cautious. I put him in an empty stall so he could roll - he prefers an empty stall over his own stall to roll and he did get up, but he's always had good hocks, just a crappy front leg.

I'm not feeling any better about this but I know I can't prolong it and let something catastrophic happen either. I can't let him become afraid. I just wanted another summer with him.

Hugs to all of you that have gone thru this - It's hard..

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Rockabilly » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:45 pm

I understand now when Billy's vet said finding Billy peacefully passed away in his run-in was his last gift to me. I didn't make that decision. I couldn't make that decision. You are very brave.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Tuddy » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:55 pm

Sending lots of love to you....

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Tarlo Farm » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:02 pm

It's SOOOOOO hard. But we owe them some dignity in death as in life. Hugs!!

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby heddylamar » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:23 pm

Sending you lots of hugs.

This is the really sucky part of animal stewardship.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby LeoApp » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:30 pm

I am so sorry. :(
It does sound like it is time now.

Hayburner
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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Hayburner » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:20 pm

I did bump him up to 2 Equioxx a day and I clipped him since it's so stinking hot.

He seems a lot more comfortable and I seriously thought about cancelling this. He was walking better and seemed to have more zip to his step.

Reality tells me if he needs 2 pain/inflammation killers a day to be comfortable, it's time. What happens when 2 doesn't help and I have to go to 3...

If I'm giving him meds to keep him comfortable is that really fair to him? He still won't be able to get as much turnout as he'd like with the heat, his Cushings and the barn TO situation.

As much as I'd like to cancel due to him looking better - I think I'd be safer in the long run to just my plans in place.

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Sunshine2Me » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:41 pm

Sending you hugs and love....

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Re: Quality of Life ?

Postby Baroque » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:50 am

(((hugs)))

I had one of my special girls pts earlier this year. It was time but it was SO HARD...


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