Just complaining. Heights of circular nonsense

[boots-aregard]

So, I took over paying my dad's insurance bill. He's 95. He doesn't need to do it anymore.

Now, right out of the box, it's a bit of a mess because while I have access to his checking account, and can log in anytime I want to see his balance and steal all his money, I don't get access to his automatic bill pay. (My other sister set it up on bill pay. Dad doesn't remember the password.) So it practically takes an act of GOD for me to get the automatic bill pay turned off, but I finally manage it. What a nutty thing. I can rob him blind, but I can't turn off a $70 payment. Sheesh.

So, by the time I get that sorted (late July), I find that I don't have the paper bill anymore for the August payment. So, I call Kaiser and speak with V. I have dad's member #, I know what his bill amount is, where do I send it? PO Box 1234. Voila, check's in the mail.

I get a letter in August saying his payment is overdue. I call and speak with M, who can't find hide nor hair of the payment. "Well, it's cleared the bank". OK, says, M, fax a copy. So I do.

New bill comes for September, I pay it. I get a letter saying his account is overdue. I call into Kaiser again and speak to L. Oh, I only sent a fax of the FRONT of the check. I have to send a fax of both FRONT AND BACK. He has no idea why M didn't tell me this, but she didn't. So I send a fax of both front and back.

10 days later, I get a letter requesting a fax for both front and back of the check, and the letter has the wrong member ID on it. Great. Now they've got my dad's situation mixed up with someone else's.

I call back and get T. T tells me it's being looked into. Tells me to call a week later.

I call back a week later, I get D. D tells me the refund was processed 10 days ago. Refund? I didn't ask for a refund. I want the account brought up to date. "Oh, sorry, since it went to the wrong address, they couldn't send the money back to the right address so they had to do a refund." Wait, says I, I got the address from you. How could it be the wrong address? "I don't know, that's what I have in my notes." So, the refund was processed 10 days ago, but I haven't received a check. How long until I get the check? "I don't know. You'll have to call us back."

By now, I am seeing red. I ask for a supervisor. I get put into a phone tree. "Do you want to pay your bill? Press 1. Do you want to close your account? Press 2." I'm screaming "SUPER VISOR" into the phone. "I'm sorry, I didn't get that. Let's try this another way. What's your social security number?"

Finally, I get to C, another "customer service agent" and by now, I'm really putting quotes around the title. She's VERY reasonable, and she knows right away I'm pissed as hell and is very careful with me. I ask to speak with a supervisor, and she tells me she has to gather the information first. So we go round the mulberry bush again, and she very carefully explains that they issued a refund and it should arrive soon. I say, "Now is the time for the memory test. What is the first question I asked you when you picked up this call?" Uh....to talk to a supervisor? "Yes." May I ask what about, says she. "Continuous Process Improvement." I don't know what that means, says she. "I know." says I.

I get the supervisor finally, Ms. R. We go round the mulberry bush AGAIN just to be sure everybody understands. I say to her, "So, you have my father's record pulled up on your computer? You have his member number and all that?" Yes, says Ms. R. "Look at his date of birth." OK, says Ms. R. "Do the math" says I. "My father in 95 years old. Do you really think he needs this kind of grief over a payment lag? Do you really think he's going to be philosphical about your letter in August, September and October threatening to cut off his insurance because your people can't find his payment check?" Ms. R, who isn't after all the gal who screwed up this whole mess, placates me to the best of her ability, and tracks down the wrong # on the letter just to be sure things haven't gotten even more cattywampus in their system, and says the refund should appear any day now. "How long shall I wait, do you suppose, before I call you folks again for the 9th time?" She goes offline to find that the refund wasn't sent 'til November 2nd so no wonder it hasn't arrived yet. "And once it does arrive, I need to send you another check to bring my father's account current?" Yes. "Since this will be a check out of sequence, and I don't have a bill stub to go with it, where shall I send the check and what shall I include on it?" I'm told to send it to PO box 1234.

(Sound of flipping of many pages) "Excuse me. You do realize that you have given me EXACTLY the same address that V gave me in August as the address to send the check to, don't you?" Yes, that's the right address. "But you do realize that by sending the check to THAT address, we started down this whole rabbit hole and 3 or 4 of your customer service agents have assured me that's the wrong address, don't you?" Uh, that address hasn't changed in several years. "So, how did the August payment end up at 'the wrong address'?"

I would, at this point, very much like mr. Mitt Romney to be president, because he was very certain "corporations are people, too, my friend" in which case I would happily go to jail for the murder of this corporation.

[TeresaB]

Ack, that sounds all too familiar. Help-less desks are all too rampant these days, even if you can understand what they are saying.

[Rhianon]

Okay, I know you aren't laughing. But that was brilliant.

Isn't there a way to change the password on Billpay?

No, wait. Forget I said that. I can imagine the grief that would bring.

[Abby Kogler]

Oh Adrienne, it is so funny but it is so NOT FUNNY. I lived that experience for years, with my mom and then my dad. OMG what I went through with my dad when he left the Kaiser coverage area and I put him on Medicare and a supplemental. OMG the months of clusterfuck, the literal hours I spent on the phone EVERY day straightening things out. Getting to be an Authorized User, getting permission to access info, monies, on and on and on and on and on...it was a full time job, managing my dads life his last years. I was happy to do it, he needed me, and appreciated me so much. but Lord, it was exactly as you describe, times every agency I had to deal with. I knew the effing menus by heart. I kept track of every name of every person and the date and time I talked to them. I had whole notebooks.."DAD". Oy.

Well, you have all my sympathy, and I am sorry I laughed at your post >;-> The memories are still very fresh!

Best of luck with all of it. Between this and your property stuff, you have a lot on your plate.

[boots-aregard]

:lol: Okay, I know you aren't laughing. But that was brilliant.

Isn't there a way to change the password on Billpay?

No, wait. Forget I said that. I can imagine the grief that would bring.

Oh we are absolutely going back to auto bill pay in January (under my password, not his, so I can control it). But the amount changes (slightly) every year. The auto-bill pay my sister set up in January of 2014 (the password nobody could remember) was for $X. The amount went down $3 this year, which is why Dad, in a fret, wanted to stop the auto bill pay. And I was on board with the notion. After all, it only took 4 months to accomplish.

Next year, his bill goes up $5. So we have to get every single cent RIGHT, you know. This is how old men think. It has to be *right* each month. We can't let it accumulate $3 a month for 11 months and then just pay the difference. NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I'm sounding like it's my dad who is unreasonable. And he's not, really he's not. He just can't stand a loose thread. And this whole fabric of "customer service" is entirely threadbare.


And what does it say about our society that so many of you have had similar experiences and thus understand? (sigh)

[boots-aregard]

it was a full time job, managing my dads life his last years. I was happy to do it, he needed me, and appreciated me so much. but Lord, it was exactly as you describe, times every agency I had to deal with.

Just think of all the elderly folks who don't have kids to watch out for them! (or aren't speaking to the kids they have). I tell you, I worry for all the childless people. Who's going to manage the "customer service agents" when their accounts start wobbling off kilter?

Man, if my DAD actually had to deal with these shenanigans....I faint at the thought.

[piedmontfields]

OMG. I agree with your conclusion about corporations.

[LeoApp]

Just think of all the elderly folks who don't have kids to watch out for them! (or aren't speaking to the kids they have). I tell you, I worry for all the childless people. Who's going to manage the "customer service agents" when their accounts start wobbling off kilter?

I think about this and worry about this myself, quite often. It is terrifying to me. I am single and childless. Who is going to do this for me when I start to falter?

[kande50]

I think about this and worry about this myself, quite often. It is terrifying to me. I am single and childless. Who is going to do this for me when I start to falter?

Save up enough money to hire someone to do it for you.? I know someone who got into a serious car accident and was badly hurt. She had all kinds of insurance, but of course, none of them wanted to pay. She couldn't deal with it so hired someone to do the bulk of it for her.

[carpevita]

I've been through the insurance company wars over and over. First horrid experience was trying to collect my mom's meager life insurance from NATIONWIDE (YOU SUCK) and was lied to, document packages were sent to each of us five siblings with missing paperwork, items were 'lost', agent was 'away' etc etc.

It took a call from my judge friend to the state insurance board who then made a call on my behalf and miraculously I had checks with three weeks---after TWO years of working on it!
Social Security, same thing.
And don't get me started on what insurance companies decide they wont cover after the fact----GRRR I DESPISE them.

[kande50]

And don't get me started on what insurance companies decide they wont cover after the fact----GRRR I DESPISE them.

There needs to be a central place where complaints are filed, so that we can look up that information before we choose a plan or company. I wonder if Consumer Reports, or some similar unbiased group, has already worked on compiling that info?

[Chancellor]

I have been doing battle with a large hospital billing department in my area. I had knee injections done by my doctor's office (who uses the large hospital billing). These injections were NOT covered by insurance and I knew it ahead of time. I got an estimate for the entire fee and agreed to pay that. On the third injection, we paid, in full (thankfully with a credit card). It was $1500!
Three months later, I get a bill for $800 from the hospital. I called them. Told them I had paid by credit card. They said "your insurance company has paid their part, the rest is up to you". I said that this was not covered by insurance. Went back and forth and back and forth.
I called the doctor's office who confirmed, yes, you have a ZERO balance. You owe nothing. Called the billing department back and told them that.
She said she would look into it.
After four or five months of hearing nothing nor getting another bill, I decided they must have figured it out. 8 months later, I get ANOTHER bill....and go back and forth AGAIN!
These people were completely incompetent....and I think about all those people (especially older people who don't want to have a balance) who would have just paid it because they don't want that hanging over their heads. UGH!
Complete INCOMPETENCE.
I FINALLY got a bill demonstrating zero balance....but anyone want to start a pool over when and if I get another bill?

[Racetrackreject]

Oh goodness Boots, that sounds awful. The whole circular argument thing really gets me. I don't know if they are just that stupid, or they think that we are just that stupid to keep following them around and around. I guess they hope we will just eventually give up.

You guys probably remember my massive vent a few years ago about the bank sending a letter to me stating that they were charging me "excessive use" fees on my account that were $15 for each transaction over the excessive limit. My accounts say free unlimited transactions, but the bank had sent a copy of some sort of federal regulation saying that they could charge for "excessive use".

I called the bank because I wanted to know what constituted 'excessive use". Talk about circular arguments! I never received an answer because it seems that no one actually knows, so I informed them that they would reimburse the "excessive use fee" until such time that they could tell me exactly what constituted "excessive use", and that no, their response of "use that is excessive" was not a valid answer or, I would call the Attorney General to see if he could get an answer out of them.

Knock on wood, but I haven't received any "excessive use" charges since then.

I also was once harassed for months over a bill to a credit card company for $0.00. Literally, the bill said $0.00, the late notice and collection letter said $0.00. When they called my house, the collectors said the debt was $0.00. No one seemed to agree with me that the whole idea that I was going to be sued for not paying a bill of $0.00 was ludicrous. I finally issued a check, written out for $0.00, and the whole thing stopped. I even have a photo of the check somewhere.

[boots-aregard]

I also was once harassed for months over a bill to a credit card company for $0.00. Literally, the bill said $0.00, the late notice and collection letter said $0.00. When they called my house, the collectors said the debt was $0.00. No one seemed to agree with me that the whole idea that I was going to be sued for not paying a bill of $0.00 was ludicrous. I finally issued a check, written out for $0.00, and the whole thing stopped. I even have a photo of the check somewhere.

That's truly priceless!!

[Canyon]

RTR, sometimes you have to fight crazy with more crazy!

I hope the collectors were happy with their cut of the proceeds .

[Chancellor]

Oh, I have another good one for you in a similar vein to RTR.
When I lived in a certain town, they had a livestock tax on horses. It was some small amount. I don't remember. I dutifully paid it every year...until the year that I lost my horse to colic. I dutifully mailed in a letter saying that the horse had died.
I had to fight with the town about this. UNTIL, I finally got someone on the phone. I said, "Okay, if he is worth $1000 to you, how about I sell him to you for that? You just need to go to Tufts and ask for him at the creamatorium."
That FINALLY got me off the hook for that tax.

[Moutaineer]

My PCP of many years standing finally closed her own practice and joined the local clinic of our large university health network. Trying to make an appointment with her or leave her a message or ask a question is just a circular nightmare--especially when you aren't feeling so great to start with.

She actually gave me her cell phone # last time I managed to see her, with instructions to bypass the system and text her directly if I needed something...

[heddylamar]

My husband (same insurance, but last name is "Doe") and I both use the same allergist. He started allergy shots several years before me, and all went well — every few months we'd receive a bill for the past 6 treatments, and I would send a check.

Then I became a patient too. My last name is "O'Sample-Doe."

Since then, every other bill received reads "past due" or has a friendly cover letter threatening collections. How does this happen when I dutifully pay each bill when it arrives? Well, according to the ever-helpful billing manager, the "data entry girls" don't pay attention to the account number, they just see a name and apply the payment to that name. See last names above. The result is one account will be over-paid, while the other (which I have an electronic payment trail for) is in arrears.

There is also a preponderance of mis-billed shots — a bill in my name with my account number that has several of my

Fast forward several years — my husband ran out of his latest bottle of serum and all semblance of patience at the same time — he quits using this allergist.

Three months later, I receive a bill in his name (???) with three appointment charges in my name. And, in another envelope, the first bill I've gotten for my account since March ... with a cover letter saying that it's been handed over to collections.

Still at a loss from the last conversation with the ever-helpful billing manager when she explained that this was my fault, I didn't bother calling to ask why I this was my first bill in 6 months, I just paid ... on my final vial of serum, then sayonara!

[boots-aregard]

according to the ever-helpful billing manager, the "data entry girls" don't pay attention to the account number, they just see a name and apply the payment to that name. See last names above.

Good god. One hopes that Mr. and Mrs. Smith of the former generation didn't have two sons, or your town is in for a heck of a lot of confusion!

[FlyingLily]

That sounds horrible but you also made it hilarious.

I shudder to think of the elderly who don't have a younger person to advocate for them...in our crazy systems.

[Chancellor]

That sounds horrible but you also made it hilarious.

I shudder to think of the elderly who don't have a younger person to advocate for them...in our crazy systems.

I'm hoping some young DDBBer will help me when I get old!

[Racetrackreject]

That sounds horrible but you also made it hilarious.

I shudder to think of the elderly who don't have a younger person to advocate for them...in our crazy systems.

I'm hoping some young DDBBer will help me when I get old!

My SO is 12 years younger, so I'm hoping he sticks around long enough.

[boots-aregard]

I think about this and worry about this myself, quite often. It is terrifying to me. I am single and childless. Who is going to do this for me when I start to falter?

Save up enough money to hire someone to do it for you.? I know someone who got into a serious car accident and was badly hurt. She had all kinds of insurance, but of course, none of them wanted to pay. She couldn't deal with it so hired someone to do the bulk of it for her.

In our business (elder care) we work with several hired folks. I shudder to think at the big bucks THEY would be raking in (out of the accounts of poor, unable-to-earn-it-back elders) chasing down things as stupid as this. They charge by the hour and get WELL PAID.

Make friends with young relatives and promise to leave them something in your will. That's my advice.

*We had a fight with one of these conservators over a half gallon of soy milk. Apparently, our caregiver bought a different brand of soy milk for the customer, thinking the flavorless one would make better smoothies (for the client) than the vanilla flavored brand. The client (admittedly, someone who had a caregiver and a conservator, so probably not 'all there') was fine with the change. But the conservator went nuts, and berated the caregiver, the caregiver manager, and my DH over the change. Then refused to pay, required a restatement of the bill, and proceeded to mention it every time she called again about other issues for 3 or 4 more months until my DH, in exasperation, said, "You seem not to be happy with our service. Perhaps you should go elsewhere?" (and I'll tell you, he has the patience of a saint. He lives with me and has developed such.) No, NO! Of course not! She loved our service.

Well, turns out she wound up charging the client over $150 in time fees for 'correcting' the "problem" of a $3.95 half gallon of soy milk.

[kande50]

out of the accounts of poor, unable-to-earn-it-back elders

If they're poor enough they may be fine because social services will take care of it. We used to be so afraid of being poor, but now I think it may be an advantage.

[boots-aregard]

out of the accounts of poor, unable-to-earn-it-back elders

If they're poor enough they may be fine because social services will take care of it. We used to be so afraid of being poor, but now I think it may be an advantage.

I wouldn't count on it. In our area, social services doesn't come anywhere close to assisting with regular caregiving.