In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

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Chisamba
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In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby Chisamba » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:32 pm

I have been thinking.

(One if the people I work with starts a sentence with I have been thinking. It's their way of warning you he is stressed and doesn't know how to manage it)

So, I've been thinking. Dressage is a sport that relies on self criticism to improve. You get a piaffe, for example, and immediately ask yourself if you can get it with clear transitions, better tempo, nor so short in the base, shoulder in, do you have enough angle, did you maintain connection, can you improve self carriage.

Does this constant self evaluation rob us of joy?

My 2019 goal is to appreciate what is right in myself and others before working to improve what needs improving.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby khall » Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:01 pm

Excellent thought Chisamba! Yes I do think we need to appreciate what we and others can do well more than worrying about what we cannot do well.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby demi » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:18 pm

I’ve been thinking, too.

Maybe age has something to do with it, but I realized a while back, that I don’t need to be as critical of my riding as I tend to be. It’s a trap for me, and maybe a lot of us, that I obsessive about the things that are important to me. I tend to over focus and over do.

But when I look at the horses I’ve had over the years, even though I haven’t gotten near the level I would like, I’ve learned a way to get the feel I want. And when I allow myself to trust my feelings, I get the most enjoyment. I have a good concept of the feel I strive for because I’ve ridden enough times with BNT’s. When I felt that something was really good, and the BNT said “yes!” I got confidence that it was correct. When things are “working” for me and my horse, it has a distinct feel.

It’s a lot about connnection for me. I want to feel connected and in tune with Rocky. I want a softness and a harmony, and I want to be able to have her power as if it was my own. I’m going for the feel these days, and worry less and less about being correct. I think it has to be correct enough if it feels really good.

Of course, I realize there is a BIG jump from the low levels to the FEI levels so I am working with a competent trainer. As soon as we are ready, I will try to get in some clinics.

I’ve built self-criticism into my rides, but in a subliminal way. My self-evaluation is based on how the rides feel and feed back from my trainer, and self-video. I go about my ride now with the objective of enjoying them. Yes, I want to improve, but I trust that it will come under my current program. Barring any lameness or any of those other things that derail.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby musical comedy » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:23 pm

Chisamba wrote:Does this constant self evaluation rob us of joy?
It does for some of us. I daily speak with a good friend my age that has now retired from riding. We frequently say that if we had it to do all over we would not have gotten into horses, especially dressage.

There are surely many dressage riders that are happy with the sport even with being critical of their faults. More others though, are not happy. You can see it on their faces when they leave a show round or lesson they aren't happy with. Some even cry. Then you watch people that pleasure ride, some of them less than good riders on less than fancy horses. They look like they are enjoying themselves. Look at the ones out hunting pacing enjoying themselves and those fox hunting.

That's why I've commented from time to time about using the word 'fun' to define dressage riding. It's not fun, at least not for me. It's an addiction than has nasty side effects.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby musical comedy » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:26 pm

demi wrote:It’s a lot about connnection for me. I want to feel connected and in tune with Rocky. I want a softness and a harmony, and I want to be able to have her power as if it was my own. I’m going for the feel these days, and worry less and less about being correct. I think it has to be correct enough if it feels really good.
I want what you want, and I said this in so many words on the training forum recently. However, I disagree that if it feels really good, it has to be correct. That could be true in your case if you have a realistic feel. I often times think things feel good and my trainer doesn't. On the other hand, trainer has said "super" when it felt like crap to me.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby Fatcat » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:32 pm

What a great thread. I think it helps me to not take myself and dressage too seriously by not spending $$$$$ on a horse and facilities. If I've got a lot of money invested it seems more like a job instead of my passion. I stopped focusing on the end goal years ago, and am enjoying the journey. I no longer compete, but still like to work up the levels. I also love trail riding, horse camping, and do driving with my pony. I'm very happy with my Morgan, and my little outdoor arena in my backyard.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby Ryeissa » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:15 pm

yeah, this is exactly why I took up "jumping" (cross rail type stuff). I needed another outlet where I had zero goals and zero ambition besides not falling off. Its a constant battle, but overall I think I do pretty good managing things.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby Imperini » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:35 pm

This is so timely for me, I'll post more in the goals thread about our recent progress, but basically after several weeks of just not enjoying myself and Paloma obviously expressing that she was also not enjoying herself I too was thinking. I ride because it keeps me sane, it's actually quite painful for me most of the time but that break from anxiety where I'm just with my horse has always been well worth it. Then I wasn't having fun anymore and my horse wasn't having fun and I was wondering if it was worth it. So with some effort I stopped worrying about whether we were successfully working toward a show-able 2nd level and started worrying about whether my horse and I were communicating effectively and enjoying our time together. I can't say for sure if she's enjoying her time with me but she quickly becomes soft and forward and is definitely not expressing her dislike anymore and I know I am enjoying my time with her.

I'm sure it will be a challenge to try and add in anything other than basic work while maintaining the above mindset but I am hoping I can make it work.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby Flight » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:06 am

I think it's interesting how a 'bad' ride can have an impact on my mood for the rest of the day.
As MC said, its additive with some not so good side effects. Sometimes I like doing something totally non horsey as a break. But only for a couple of days because then I miss riding again!

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby demi » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:08 am

musical comedy wrote:
demi wrote:It’s a lot about connnection for me. I want to feel connected and in tune with Rocky. I want a softness and a harmony, and I want to be able to have her power as if it was my own. I’m going for the feel these days, and worry less and less about being correct. I think it has to be correct enough if it feels really good.
I want what you want, and I said this in so many words on the training forum recently. However, I disagree that if it feels really good, it has to be correct. That could be true in your case if you have a realistic feel. I often times think things feel good and my trainer doesn't. On the other hand, trainer has said "super" when it felt like crap to me.


That’s not exactly what I said. I said “I think it has to be correct ENOUGH...”. If I tried to hold mysel to strict correctness, I would never be satisfied or happy with my rides. It would, and at times, has, taken the joy out of dressage for me.

I think I feel like Fatcat about not taking myself and dressage too seriously, and limiting the amount of money I spend on it. DH would say I spend like crazy on my hobby but he has no idea ;)

I also feel like Imperini in that I focus on effectively communicating with my horse and enjoying our time together. I think Rocky really does enjoy our rides, especially, in the later years.

The thread topic has me thinking :-) I think I am being kinder to myself regarding dressage, and by extension, I am kinder to Rocky. I don’t like even being around unkind people, let alone working with them. It makes sense that I should be kind to myself and my horse. The trick, for me anyway, is figuring out how to be kind without losing effectiveness...
Last edited by demi on Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby demi » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:18 am

Flight, my mood too, used to be impacted a lot if I had a bad ride. When I use to ride more than one horse, having a bad ride on the first horse of the day would often spill over on to the next horse.Now, I can admit that it’s largely my own attitude. I think I finally have the best attitude I’ve ever had about dressage, and it will be tested if I can get Emma going again.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby Fatcat » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:32 am

Yes, my hubby thinks we spend a lot of horses but he has NO IDEA. To go tangential... I mentioned to my hubby that someone I know tried to spend $75k for an eventer in Ireland (and couldn't find one that suits), and his eyes bugged out. I better hope nothing happens to my Morgan, I'd never be able to replace her. I've seen her siblings (same sire), doing training level dressage advertised for $15k. She's only insured for $7500, and I can't get it increased until I start racking up the shows, which I won't be doing. This horse thing has really gotten ridiculous, it seems like horse prices, vet expenses and facilities have priced mere mortals out.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby kande50 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:04 pm

Fortunately, my attitude about my hobbies is that if I have to spend a large chunk of my assets to up my chances of being "successful" at them, then I wouldn't actually be successful because I would have bought that "success" instead of earning it.

And when it comes to horses I've always felt that it was even more important not to put any additional pressure on myself to "succeed", because I'd just transfer that pressure to my horses and that would in no way be in their best interests.

Somewhere along the journey I did figure out that progress is larval enough that any perceptions I might have about the success or failure of a single ride have a lot more to do with my mood that day, than with reality.

I think just about everyone who sticks with horses ends up on the same path from young and energetic and driven, to old and tired and grateful (that they're no longer young and energetic and driven) . :-)

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby Chisamba » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:09 pm

Kande, I honestly do not think many people follow the path you describe.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby kande50 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:15 pm

demi wrote:The trick, for me anyway, is figuring out how to be kind without losing effectiveness...


I think one of the ways to be kinder is to take more time, so that each step is smaller and therefore easier to achieve. That often does involve a shift in the perception of what constitutes achievement, but when we think about what the odg's have written they all agree that training takes time and patience.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby kande50 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:19 pm

Chisamba wrote:Kande, I honestly do not think many people follow the path you describe.


So in an attempt to be more positive, how would you describe the path that you think most people follow?

IOW, instead of simply disagreeing, how about offering your take on the path that you feel most follow?

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby musical comedy » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:33 pm

kande50 wrote: IOW, instead of simply disagreeing, how about offering your take on the path that you feel most follow?
I don't completely understand the question you ask. Most people, with respect to to what? Dressage? Horse riding in general?

kande50 wrote:If I have to spend a large chunk of my assets to up my chances of being "successful" at them, then I wouldn't actually be successful because I would have bought that "success" instead of earning it.
Some of this I agree with. Money can up the chances of being successful at many things. Certainly, money spent on lots of lessons and a nice horse (whether bought or loaned) will up the chances of being successful imo. The part I'm unsure about is how one 'earns' the success. Do they have to pull a starving horse off the feed lot and manage some success without instruction in order to have earned something?

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby Chisamba » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:40 pm

In all kindness, be happy and own your path.

I do not feel old tired and grateful that I am no longer young and energetic. Since you claim everyone who sticks with horses feels this way, I simply disagreed.

I kind of appreciate the wisdom gained in my years with horses, it has helped me be more patient and appreciative. I still enjoy riding, and gave always enjoyed the other aspects of being with horses.

No one else has to feel this way. It's simply my appreciation of my journey.

Does everyone have to be on the same path. Of course not

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby Hayburner » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:02 pm

I am super critical of my rides and my abilities at riding. Yet, I will praise my mare up and down for the baby steps we are still taking/making. I don't' believe that I have a good seat or that I am a descent rider. I read articles about how to do things or how to ride to better the horses way of going or to build topline, working in hand for balance, etc. and I get so discouraged and think I have no idea how to do this , I'm going to wreck my mare and I should just stop riding. I'm not building a solid horse - I'm not doing things the right way, based on these articles.

I can't say that I want to learn "dressage" - I just want to learn to ride my horse correctly and to eventually have fun.

Yet, I am proud that last week, we walked around the indoor 3 times without her getting quick. I know that sounds like nothing but for us it was a huge accomplishment. I have been able to mount at the mounting block and have her stand for a minute or two before she walks off quickly. That again is huge for us. Others would probably laugh like it's nothing, but since I know where we came from and to see that Yes it's taken us what seems like forever it's a big step in my mind.

Luckily, the girl that is helping us is very positive, even when I'm not happy with my ride she'll find moments in that ride that I should be happy about it.

At the point we are at, I'm too embarrassed to have the local trainer come and give me lessons. I don't want to be pushed "forward", I have forward I am working on keeping my mare relaxed and being safe on her.

Do I think someone else could get on her and ride her better, absolutely! Am I holding her back a bit in the name of safety, absolutely! But, deep down I'm trying and I'm not ready to give up - I just need to be more positive in 2019!

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby piedmontfields » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:28 pm

"Does this constant self evaluation rob us of joy?"

For me? No. But I like knowing and understanding reality in all things. In my work, I always see areas for improvements, while also recognizing that quite decent work was accomplished. It doesn't bring me down at all to notice this---in fact, it keeps me interested and challenged. But then I'm not a bragger or smoke-blower or someone who is keeping up with anyone. I'm also not an idiot pollyanna. Over the years, I've learned to just trust the opinion and guidance of equestrians I respect who have the knowledge and experience to know. I also really trust that good work over time yields good results.

In a somewhat related note, at some point many years ago, I learned to only have "good rides." I was leasing a difficult horse for me at the time and was getting frustrated and found that I was not looking forward to our next session together. So I switched my mindset to making sure that while we worked a things that were hard for us each ride, we always clearly ended on things we could do well together---so that ease became the memory of our "good ride." This is really just training, but it is important for us humans to get trained, too!

Hayburner, you might find some of Denny Emerson's writing very helpful (I just got his new book Know Better to Do Better). As he reminds us, it's very hard to hurt a horse by doing a lot of work at the walk! And there is still much of value that can happen for both horse and rider.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby blob » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:45 pm

At it's best, dressage for me is about philosophy and solving puzzles--how can I improve x with the challenges of y and z? It's about constant learning and evolution rather than perfection.

But sometimes, it does become too much about self-criticism. And I think that happens the most when I see myself as the major barrier, rather than the partnership (me and my horse) needing to improve/evolve.

For example: it's easy for me to stay positive around needing to improve our extended trot (a challenge for me and my horse). We have a long ways to go, but it's a generative problem that keeps me looking for exercises, new ideas, and keeps me working hard. It's harder, however, for me to stay positive about trying to get the timing right for changes. My horse would have confirmed changes quickly if only I could get my timing consistently correct. But I have been struggling to do so and I am frustrated feeling like the cog in the wheel of progress.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby kande50 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:48 pm

musical comedy wrote: Dressage? Horse riding in general?


I think that observation might apply to horses in general, but maybe dressage in particular?

The part I'm unsure about is how one 'earns' the success. Do they have to pull a starving horse off the feed lot and manage some success without instruction in order to have earned something?


I think that anyone who keeps at it probably feels that they're having some success, because if they weren't getting something positive out of it then what would motivate them to stick with it? I suppose they could be one of those ever hopeful but unrealistic people, but when it comes to horses I think there's usually more driving it than just hope.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby kande50 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:04 pm

Chisamba wrote:
I do not feel old tired and grateful that I am no longer young and energetic. Since you claim everyone who sticks with horses feels this way, I simply disagreed.


That was "just about everyone", not everyone.

Where my young/energetic/driven comment came from is that if you ask older people if they'd like to go back and do it all over again, most say no. I don't think that's necessarily because of the young and energetic part, but because of the driven part.

Now if someone gave me the choice that I could either die tomorrow or go back to day one, then I'd go back, but as long as there's the possibility of another 30 years of this I'll opt to stay where I am--and might even feel the same way 30 years from now.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby Hayburner » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:06 pm

Piedmont - I do follow Denny Emerson on Facebook and saw he had a new book out - I should probably read it, as I enjoy his posts.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby Ryeissa » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:25 pm

I was thinking about this (sort of) and why I get more spazzy about horses vs stuff that I do otherwise....I spend a lot of money to board and I have invested a lot in building what I have. I have a very talented horse that is a good fit for me. I have trainers and barn. I have the chance, will I do right by it?

When you mix money into things, it really changes, and horses only live so long. Get going :)

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby Angfreda » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:54 pm

Way, way back in time... I hit a point with Yo that felt like we were treading water. Every ride wasn't bad, it just seemed we weren't making progress.
I started keeping a journal of what we had done, focusing on the little things that we were working on that went right.
I know from my auditing of some of the BNT that have come to this area, even when they work with upper level riders, they tend to go back to some basics and work on those to fix the bigger things.
So along that line, I believe, my focusing on what was right [hard for this eternal pessimist], helped me see the actual improvements we were making that were just small, but that do have a big impact on the bigger things we're trying to accomplish.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby Ryeissa » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:09 pm

yes, I find that really helpful too. I keep a journal of each ride, and take as many videos as I can. It helps give perspective!

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby kande50 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:24 am

Ryeissa wrote:and horses only live so long. Get going :)


I've always thought of horses as a much longer term project than what I could accomplish with one horse, which meant that I thought of each horse as an opportunity to learn more so that I could apply that knowledge to my next horse, rather than as the one horse who was going to take me to <insert ever changing goals here>.

Thinking longer term didn't cure the problems, but I think it helped.

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Re: In a world where you can be anything..be kind to yourself

Postby piedmontfields » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:03 pm

kande50 wrote:I've always thought of horses as a much longer term project than what I could accomplish with one horse, which meant that I thought of each horse as an opportunity to learn more so that I could apply that knowledge to my next horse, rather than as the one horse who was going to take me to <insert ever changing goals here>.


That is exactly how I think of it. The horses are on a long term endeavor to teach me!


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