Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

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Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Chancellor » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:51 pm

I am not one to play the feminist card. I work in a male dominated industry as a software developer. I do not work for my company's IT department (THANK GOD). A fact which irritates the heck out of the old boy's club of our IT department.
There is a guy down in corporate in NC who apparently has some knowledge of the ERP system we use here ( and which I was hired to administer). The man is an a$$hole.
We had a meeting recently in which he and his boss basically dismissed my knowledge of a specific problem we were having until I brought in the junior IT guy who works here and was troubleshooting the very thing I said was a problem.

He has called so many meetings but he is doing absolutely NOTHING to solve the issue we are having.
This morning, he sent an email to me and "the team" of which only two people are doing anything.

He wrote:

Hal/Karl,
Where are we with getting the VM from Lori?

Team:
where are with doing bla bla bla

My name is right in the email header. He can see how it is spelled. And why is he addressing two MEN instead of me?

The team is about 5-6 men and me. And only I and one of the guys down at corporate are doing anything. The rest are just calling meetings.

If I write back something in response to this, saying "perhaps you should address me?" I would be seen as a witch with a capital B.
But I soooo want to do SOMETHING.

Anyone have any clever comebacks?

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby StraightForward » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:51 pm

Can one of the men on your team act as your ally? Like when a-hole addresses him, he says, good question, why don't you ask THE WOMAN WHO KNOWS.

This is not easy. About 6 years ago I joined a cadre of all late 50's/early 60's men, most with PhDs, as a woman in my 30's with *only* an M.S. It has been a long, hard slog even though they in theory accept me. With two other women and two younger guys joining the team it has gotten better. None of these older guys would see themselves as sexist, yet they do a lot of insidiously sexist/ageist things (e.g. I end up doing a lot of typing, formatting, making handouts for classes, etc.). Having a couple of the guys see this and help as allies (tactfully) has been the most effective route (we are usually in a teaching situation, so it's not like I can throw a fit in front of a room full of students).
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby StraightForward » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:53 pm

If you want to address this specific email, I might reply back "Dear XXX, it seems you forgot to ask me on this email, but..." and then drop a devastating load of knowledge on him, and ask if that answers his question. Like, go way over the top with technical details, and then keep referring back to that email if he continues to ask questions.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby heddylamar » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:58 pm

If no waves are your preference, I’d respond all with something like: “Dear Chauvinist: [here’s the status]. Please let me know if my team or I can be of any assistance, Lori”

Ditto StraightForward’s the woman who knows allie :twisted: I lucked out having two of those for years while working with a real d*#%. Those two were about the only reason the jerk didn’t get a xacto knife in the forehead.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Chancellor » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:15 pm

Sadly, I am the only one in this site with the programming knowledge. He is addressing a team of 6-7 men who are all in corporate IT....none of them is really on my "team" and are not even in this site.

I MIGHT be able to get Hal to address him to say "let's ask Laurie who would know the status." I do know that Hal is so not a fan of this guy.

Hal told me that this guy couldn't remember the name of a woman that this guy worked with. So he called her "young lady".
Nice huh?

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Bip » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:24 pm

I’m no help. I don’t even think there is a feminist card, just a bunch of women who have experienced similar (and sadly, much worse) on an ongoing basis forever and whenever we get fed up and point out the frank and blatant bull shit, the men call us bitches and insist we stop bothering them with the “feminist card”.

Captain Awkward probably has some very good advice for how to deal with him, but I suspect that if no one in a position of power in your company is able to recognize how toxic his behavior is and to impose some consequences on the guy, I doubt the behavior will change.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby WheresMyWhite » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:30 pm

C, I feel your pain. There are some good suggestions here. Head-to-head probably isn't going to be too successful but the honey sweet "blonde hair flip" (as I used to call it) can sometimes work.

I used to have one of those for my supervisor/manager :( Got to the point that I would be working a problem (with 30+ years of database experience, him with 30+ years of field service tech/limited system manager) and he'd go out and surf the internet for suggestions to tell me what I should be doing and how I should be solving the problem. Not my happiest years at my job :(

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Chancellor » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:00 pm

Bip wrote:I’m no help. I don’t even think there is a feminist card, just a bunch of women who have experienced similar (and sadly, much worse) on an ongoing basis forever and whenever we get fed up and point out the frank and blatant bull shit, the men call us bitches and insist we stop bothering them with the “feminist card”.

Captain Awkward probably has some very good advice for how to deal with him, but I suspect that if no one in a position of power in your company is able to recognize how toxic his behavior is and to impose some consequences on the guy, I doubt the behavior will change.


Honestly I think this could get much worse which is why I am trying to somehow put a stop to it. Or not necessarily put a stop to it but make him look like the awkward one...Not me being the witch. Because in my experience, if you can make them look like the fool, they quit!

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Amado » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:48 pm

There should be channels to deal with this behavior. I would be making a stink and talking to someone in HR.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby calvin » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:22 pm

1) Problem person will not - ever - change. (Clever will go over his head if he cannot even recognize who will solve the problem.)
2) Enlist Hal as suggested.

Honestly, this stuff is SO very tiresome, and does not seem to go away. A head-on confrontation is not in your interests. You recognize that. Enlisting HR will not solve the problem. The problem is the person.

Many of us have worked in male-dominated professions or business. This kind of thing really gets stale.

There is no easy solution.

Dinosaurs eventually became extinct, as will his ilk.

In the meantime, be the consummate professional, when they go low, go high (I believe that is an effective strategy in dealing with jerks), and do NOT let this get to you personally, because then he wins. Remember that you are not alone.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:35 am

In my experience, men of this ilk do not ever appreciate being made the fool, but they will tone down the egregious behavior when you are kindly, highly competent and specific. It is possible to occupy the "super Lori/Laurie" space instead of "super B". Just don't expect to be recognized for it in substantial ways. It is also completely legal to let inept people flail about and suffer from their intelligence or lack there of.

Sincerely,

a feminist

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Rosie B » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:49 am

I can relate. I AM in corporate IT, and am the only female manager in a technical area, with a larger team than most of them. I'm also quite a bit younger than all of them.

[Editing this post because the rest of the message does not need to be associated with my name for posterity.]

Good luck. ;)
Last edited by Rosie B on Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby LeoApp » Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:53 pm

Laurie - please read this. Women get no respect. It's a fact.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 22201.html

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby StraightForward » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:56 pm

LeoApp wrote:Laurie - please read this. Women get no respect. It's a fact.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 22201.html


This is also true. I just got an email from someone who would constantly go around me and ask male colleagues questions, even though I'm his direct senior technical contact. I think he's been in the position seven years, and finally starting to call me when he has questions, though I think he still second-guesses my answers. :roll: My male counterpart (we manage different aspects of a single program) constantly has to redirect questions to me, while I only get questions about his aspect of the program when he's on leave. I'm just grateful that he redirects them, instead of giving half-assed answers.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Chancellor » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:45 pm

My boss, who was copied on the email, corrected him on the spelling of my name. I was happy to hear that.
I am trying to use piedmontfields advice here. Just making sure I am competent and right before I speak. I don't think I could do ANYTHING to pad his ego anymore Rosie B. First, he isn't offering anything viable. And second, this man does not need his ego fed EVER

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Chancellor » Mon May 13, 2019 7:20 pm

And, now, my worst nightmare has come to fruition. They are sending said chauvinist here. And I have to work with him for four days

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby piedmontfields » Tue May 14, 2019 2:07 am

Only 4 days? Lucky you.

Sincerely,

a feminist in a male and masculinist-dominated field

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Moutaineer » Tue May 14, 2019 3:49 am

The man is a dick. Drink heavily.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby heddylamar » Tue May 14, 2019 4:25 am

Ugh. Find your happy mental place -- you'll need a safe zone.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Chancellor » Tue May 14, 2019 12:42 pm

piedmontfields wrote:Only 4 days? Lucky you.

Sincerely,

a feminist in a male and masculinist-dominated field


This is the man they have picked as my "backup" despite his knowledge being very lacking. So, I only have to work with him for four days in the same building.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Koolkat » Tue May 14, 2019 5:07 pm

Only 4 days to teach him anything? Try to be patient. . .

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby redsoxluvr » Wed May 15, 2019 12:31 am

You can't get into a Pi**sing match with this neanderthal, because as you are the only woman you will be seen as instigating, not retaliating.
I recommend that you remain professional, be gracious in your replies and just move on with your life. Having been the only woman
in a male dominated group, I could never win even when I was clearly in the right. If I stood up for myself, I was a b(*$&. If I didn't, I
was meek. There was literally no winning, so all I did was succeed at everything I was tasked to do. Eventually, people noticed and the
chauvinistic behaviour lessened.

I would give the neanderthal enough rope to hang himself with and let the process of natural selection handle itself.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Chancellor » Wed May 15, 2019 12:55 pm

redsoxluvr wrote:You can't get into a Pi**sing match with this neanderthal, because as you are the only woman you will be seen as instigating, not retaliating.
I recommend that you remain professional, be gracious in your replies and just move on with your life. Having been the only woman
in a male dominated group, I could never win even when I was clearly in the right. If I stood up for myself, I was a b(*$&. If I didn't, I
was meek. There was literally no winning, so all I did was succeed at everything I was tasked to do. Eventually, people noticed and the
chauvinistic behaviour lessened.

I would give the neanderthal enough rope to hang himself with and let the process of natural selection handle itself.



I'm trying....I'm trying. You have described exactly how I feel. There is no winning here.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Bip » Thu May 16, 2019 11:35 pm

Well, I didn’t see you on the news tonight so you must be doing ok!

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Chancellor » Fri May 17, 2019 7:22 pm

Bip wrote:Well, I didn’t see you on the news tonight so you must be doing ok!

This is NEXT week. You may well see me on the news.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby redsoxluvr » Mon May 20, 2019 3:47 am

Chancellor wrote:
redsoxluvr wrote:You can't get into a Pi**sing match with this neanderthal, because as you are the only woman you will be seen as instigating, not retaliating.
I recommend that you remain professional, be gracious in your replies and just move on with your life. Having been the only woman
in a male dominated group, I could never win even when I was clearly in the right. If I stood up for myself, I was a b(*$&. If I didn't, I
was meek. There was literally no winning, so all I did was succeed at everything I was tasked to do. Eventually, people noticed and the
chauvinistic behaviour lessened.

I would give the neanderthal enough rope to hang himself with and let the process of natural selection handle itself.



I'm trying....I'm trying. You have described exactly how I feel. There is no winning here.


Winning is staying off the news and out of Human Resources. You can do it!

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Chancellor » Mon May 20, 2019 1:43 pm

I've been with him for 40 minutes. He is already starting.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Ryeissa » Mon May 20, 2019 5:50 pm

Chancellor wrote:I've been with him for 40 minutes. He is already starting.


:(
sorry.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby lorilu » Tue May 21, 2019 1:01 am

Been there.
My suggestion? Take the assertive high road. Remind him he is there to LEARN from YOU. If you are dealing with a specific issue, start with an overview of the issue and steps you have already taken to address it. DO NOT let him talk over you or interrupt you. The FIRST time he does, call him out and remind him of your position as his trainer. Suggest that if he has comments, to write them down so you can address them LATER. (Ask if he has a note pad. he won't. Provide them with a sigh.)
After you are done with describing the issue, ask if he has suggestions. (I suspect he won't).
At that point, your point will have been made.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Chancellor » Wed May 22, 2019 5:37 pm

This guy just takes the cake. He has all sorts of opinions on everything but can't really come up with anything tangible.

Whatever. Two other companies have just called me for interviews. I think it is a sign to get outta here. I have almost made it. Just need to make it through today and tomorrow morning.

I am pretty sure this is not what my oncologist meant when she said I needed to reduce the stress in my life. My blood pressure has likely been through the roof all week. I will be so glad when all of this is over.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby redsoxluvr » Mon May 27, 2019 3:27 am

Chancellor, how did things turn out? Were you able to get through the week without quitting or ending up n the news?

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Chancellor » Tue May 28, 2019 12:29 pm

Things were just odd. This guy talks a really good game. One of those people who can sound like they know what they are doing....until you delve a little deeper and discover he is the wizard of Oz.
I did not quit. Although I do still have two job interviews coming up.

He is now going to go back to corporate and say whatever the hell he wants. Like "Laurie doesn't know what she is doing". And will probably be believed. UGH!

On top of all this, I got pretty sick this weekend. YUCK

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Ponichiwa » Tue May 28, 2019 5:06 pm

I work with several of these. Good news is that they're not nearly as slick as they think they are; other people do see right through them, too. And there is absolutely no glory in trying to get them to admit they're wrong/don't know what they're talking about. You just end up looking like a terrible person down there with them.

The best defense is being really, reliably good at your job, impersonal/professional in conversations, and knowing a lot about the jobs around you (echoing advice from Piedmontfields and redsoxlvr).

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Chancellor » Tue May 28, 2019 7:02 pm

Ponichiwa wrote:I work with several of these. Good news is that they're not nearly as slick as they think they are; other people do see right through them, too. And there is absolutely no glory in trying to get them to admit they're wrong/don't know what they're talking about. You just end up looking like a terrible person down there with them.

The best defense is being really, reliably good at your job, impersonal/professional in conversations, and knowing a lot about the jobs around you (echoing advice from Piedmontfields and redsoxlvr).


Can someone email me this EVERY.SINGLE.DAY? I need to be told this over and over again.

I had some me time this weekend and really thought about this. It's not easy for me. But I am going to try to remember this

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Ponichiwa » Tue May 28, 2019 7:23 pm

Preach, sister. I recently had a run-in with a very similar individual and did not rise to the occasion. At the end of a very tense meeting, he was no closer to confessing his incompetence and I ended up looking like a total jerk. It's hard, but every time I mentally take the high road I end up faring a lot better.

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Re: Tips for dealing with a male chauvinist

Postby Chancellor » Wed May 29, 2019 11:58 am

Anyone remember the old Seinfeld episode where George Costanza thinks of all these comebacks AFTER the time had passed. That was me this weekend. But I was thinking of how I could have taken the high road (No, really I WAS).


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