Am I being too picky about Daughter's riding instructor?

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I know a lot of people don't have kids on this forum (but a few do) but maybe that will provide a more objective opinion.

My daughter who is 9 years old has been taking riding lessons on and off for years. The last year she was taking western lessons with an enthusiastic training who we both loved. Life happened and the instructor had to step away from the barn. So the barn brought in some other instructors.

She's been riding with this current gal for a few months. I've felt pretty unhappy about it to be honest. I just doubt her experience/competency. I might be being too picky though. It's tough being a horsewoman and Dressage rider myself. I like things to be very correct lol.

The instructor's background seems to be she was hunter jumper rider for a number of years. And worked at a therapy riding center. She has no other qualifications.

I had to show her how to wrap stirrups for my daughter (she's been riding in an an adult dressage saddle.) She asked me what bit guards were and how to use them for a pony (tiny snaffle.) She told my daughter to stick her elbows out to the side so she would be softer (dressage rider in me really isn't loving that.)

She asked me to step in a lunge a pony once, so she could watch.

The owner of the program says it's because I make her nervous, she thinks I'm this really experienced rider/horsewoman. I do think I need to step out, but also feel like the quality isn't there. Even for a kid my daughter's age.

Last week she used a pony she didn't know. It was very fresh and she had to lunge her at the beginning before we even attempted to groom her. My daughter brushed the pony and picked one hoof. That was the only contact she had with the pony. She couldn't lead her. She couldn't do any ground work. I suggested they take a day to do none riding stuff like learning horse anatomy or wrapping. Nothing was done.

Instead the instructor struggled to lead pony around and asked me if I would hop on the pony. I was taken back but sure wasn't putting my daughter on that day. I ended up working with the pony to stand by the mounting block and take a breath. I told her this clearly isn't working and we need to just come back next week with a different pony.

I didn't feel I should pay her a lesson fee. My daughter only brushed the pony for 5 to 10 minutes. I gave her a small amount. She was upset and is now requesting a fee. I'm giving it to her but thinking we just need to switch to a program with more established instructors and ponies. I think asking a parent to do so much is bit inappropriate. I don't mind helping in small ways for an extra hand. But it feels like I'm working! And I don't want my daughter to be taught incorrectly or to get hurt.

What do you guys think?

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I also will fully admit that sometimes I'm side coaching and that it's completely not okay. I will in the future sit in my car and read a book and come for the last ten minutes to watch. But part of me thinks I want to "help" because I'm not thrilled with the quality of instruction. My daughter's goal is to canter this year. I just don't think I could trust this gal teaching something like that. Not being able to wrap stirrups just shows the inexperience imo. I don't feel like she has a real plan for my Daughter's progression.

I think we are trying a lesson at a the jumping barn I'm taking lessons from. They have done this for 35 years.

[exvet]

My kids are grown now; but, I will say that their riding experience was developed by me and our horses at home AND riding instruction from those well known in the area and had a long reputable list of recommendations as great instructors for kids. One was an experienced dressage instructor/trainer who had a summer camp program for local kids. She had safe horses available and I simply learned to sit in the car (on my hands). It went well in order to get my daughter introduced to dressage and someone other than her mother demanding this or suggesting that. Then my kids started going to a summer camp every year (very well known in the area) that was well attended by many kids of all ages. This program offered multiple disciplines and had several boys as well as girls attend. They did that for about 5 years in a row. Gradually my daughter needed more 'advanced' instruction and again that came from me and my 'at the time' coach/instructor. Both kids got lunge lessons from me, all the while they were riding with someone else. It worked well because I respected and knew the instructors even if they were of a discipline other than dressage. As my kids got older they began to respect more and more my experience and my ability to back/start horses for myself and for them. I can't say that my kids ever rode with someone that I didn't trust or respect even if their suggestions were something other than I would have thought of or given. I will say that my son at your daughter's age absolutely loved the jumping lessons he received. He needed something with a bit more speed and risk than riding in a ring going around and around..............probably what helped the most to keep him in horses until he discovered that pretty girls often accompanied horses once he reached his teenage years. Then, I didn't even have to 'work' at keeping him engaged in the horse thing LOL> My daughter left home at 18 to become a working student for someone. They both still ride and are in their mid to late 20's. In addition to finding a safe program with good HORSEMANSHIP basics, I believe that keeping it fun and very much a social event (network) for them definitely was beneficial to all involved

[heddylamar]

I would find a new lesson barn with someone who's experienced at teaching kids, watch other lessons a few times for kids in your daughter's age range, enroll your daughter, then step back. No young kids trainer will be teaching upper level dressage. They're going to teach the kids to post, hang on, etc. It will become more refined as they get more comfortable with the horse. So either learn to quietly cringe ... or remove yourself

That said, the instructor above does not sound particularly capable. She may know enough ... but if she's intimidated by a parent, I'd be concerned she'd be intimidated by strong willed kids and horses too.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I definitely think I need to step away (which my daughter will be happy to have me do lol.)

I just think an instructor that doesn't know this basic stuff like wrapping stirrups or how to use other tack is one that makes me really nervous. She's obviously very new to teaching. I think maybe she needs to shadow and further educate herself. I think she didn't take me up on the offer to teach my daughter about horse anatomy (since obviously the pony wasn't going to be safe for my daughter) was because she was confident in her knowledge of horse anatomy.

The jumping barn I'm taking lessons at seems like it's a better fit. More organized, experienced and confident in what they do. I think we are going to do a trial lesson. I think I'll be able to keep my mouth shut more with a program I respect and trust! Fingers crossed!

[Lipsmackerpony88]

It probably doesn't help that years ago I did teach very beginner lessons under some trainers that I worked for. It just makes it all the harder to sit there and watch someone fumble around trying to teach. I think the writing is in the wall. I haven't had this issue with any other instructors before...

[Koolkat]

IMHO, any instructor that would have a child handle/ride an animal that isn't safe (beyond the usual caveats) needs to be left behind. That is not good judgement.

[StraightForward]

I was sympathetic-ish until she wanted her lesson fee after failing to have a suitable horse available and prepared for the lesson. She should have been apologetic and refused what you did give her.

It does sound like your HJ barn might be better. I took group lessons at a barn like that when I was 9-10 and it was perfect; I think the kids learn a lot from riding together too.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Koolkat, my daughter didn't really handle her, but I'm not sure what would have happened if I wasn't there. I hope she also wouldn't have put her on the pony but I'm really not sure which isn't good. I should have complete trust!

Straightforward, I felt the same way. I am not confrontational type of person, pretty low-key... But even this rubbed me the wrong way. There was so many other alternative things they could have done that I would have happily paid a full lesson fee for! Learning about general horsemanship/horse care is worth it. But imo there was no lesson that day. No learning. Nothing.

[Chisamba]

I've been a pro for 50 years and I don't know what you mean about wrapping stirrups.

I think you are doing your daughter a disservice by giving her two instructors to worry about.

I also think the safety and well being of your child is important.

choose a program you are comfortable with, then sit in the car.

[acheyarcher]

IMHO, any instructor that would have a child handle/ride an animal that isn't safe (beyond the usual caveats) needs to be left behind. That is not good judgement.

Nor is it good judgement on the part of the barn owner. How in heavens name did that horse enter the picture of even being remotely suitable for a lesson. This womans lack of judgement goes WAAAAYYY beyond supposedly being intimidated by the OP

OP I am sure you can find another barn more suited to teaching a child who is at your daughters level

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Chisamba, so if the stirrups are too long for a rider, you can wrap them around the iron in a way so little one's can reach them. Especially helpful for kids that are very short and petite like my daughter.

I even have to wrap my stirrups if I'm riding in a very long legged rider's saddle, if they are over 6 ft tall, I often will have to wrap them as the won't go short enough.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I think thing is that the instructor doesn't have any formal education in teaching children. And I think on top of horsemanship, that's it's own skills. Teaching adults and kids is different IMO.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Acheyarcher, I think all the horses were up that day, so I will give the pony some slack. But when the pony kept trying to run into her, blow through her while leading, I think the pony should have been put away (or if she wanted to work with the pony she could have but that shouldn't have involved my daughter or paying a lesson fee)

[goldhorse]

Your parental spidey sense is going off. For a reason. I think it's time to find a new situation.

[Chisamba]

Chisamba, so if the stirrups are too long for a rider, you can wrap them around the iron in a way so little one's can reach them. Especially helpful for kids that are very short and petite like my daughter.

I even have to wrap my stirrups if I'm riding in a very long legged rider's saddle, if they are over 6 ft tall, I often will have to wrap them as the won't go short enough.

oh, that. I do not do that nor recommend it.

I would suggest that if it's a school saddle then a hole should be punched. looping leathers around the stirrup to shorten them is both uncomfortable and not good for leg position. It might be more productive for your petite daughter if you buy a pair of stirrup leathers and stirrups that can easily be slipped onto any saddle she may have to ride on.

[blob]

I just want to add that I used to wrap stirrups without worrying about it, until I experienced how dangerous they can be first hand. So, yes, please get a pair of leathers and stirrups that can be slipped on for her.

I was riding with wrapped stirrups when I had what should have been an ordinary fall. However, my the wrapped stirrup got caught in my boot and so instead of a soft landing on the ground, I was still attached to the horse--hanging by my leg. Thankfully the horse was tall enough that my head was not left to drag on the ground. But as i'm sure you can imagine hving a rider dangling further panicked the horse and he bolted off. I was kicked by hind legs, not because the horse meant to be but because I was simply in the way and did some serious damage to my hip joint and honestly, I'm very lucky it wasn't much much worse. I was able to pull myself up part way and grab reins and stop the horses. I'm also lucky that now only was I able to even do this (i doubt i could now), bu that the horse listened and stopped. Someone else had to come and release me from the death grip the wrapped stirrup had created.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Yikes! I'll be cautious of that. I've been trying to get to the tack store to get a child's size of stirrups and leathers. I still think this should fall on the lesson program. My daughter is one of the largest kids, they focus on younger children so I don't understand why they don't have appropriately sized things. My daughter rides a lot without stirrups, at my suggestion because I personally think that seems more beneficial than reaching for stirrups that are just too long.

Yesterday she rode in an 6'2 + man's western saddle. :/ She said she did slide around a bit.(Yes I sat in the car reading a book yesterday, I just came in when she was dismounting)

The jumping barn has more appropriate tack because they have been doing this for 30 plus years.

[Chancellor]

Chisamba, so if the stirrups are too long for a rider, you can wrap them around the iron in a way so little one's can reach them. Especially helpful for kids that are very short and petite like my daughter.

I even have to wrap my stirrups if I'm riding in a very long legged rider's saddle, if they are over 6 ft tall, I often will have to wrap them as the won't go short enough.

A lesson program doesn't have stirrup leathers sufficiently short for your daughter? In my opinion, that is not good.
I have been known to wrap leathers for people who were having their first lesson. But it sounds like your daughter has been there more than once.

I think it is time to move on.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

She's been with this instructor since September...

We are trying a lesson at the jumping barn for my daughter next week, if she likes it the instructor, I think the program is better. Correct, experienced, organized and safe.

[Ryeissa]

I would say lease a horse and teach her yourself....?

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I would say lease a horse and teach her yourself....?

Actually we are looking for a Golden oldie for her to lease too. But I still think getting instruction from someone else is more fun for her. But a lease could be a fun addition if we find a suitable horse.

[Sue B]

I'm a mom and I most definitely would have moved on when I found they did not have tack sized for kids so...

That being said, when my son was 9 he rode my 17.1hh dressage horse in my saddle with short stirrup leathers. Prior to that, he rode his pony (or sometimes DH's hony) in a child's western saddle, always with healed boots and a helmet. When Scotty died, he quit riding however, so I never had to deal with finding an instructor. had he wanted to continue, I would've spent the hour driving to a small lesson program with Pony Club kids and appropriate mounts.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Sue B, yeah it bothers me that they aren't prepared-when they claim the focus is on little kids.

She has a lesson at a barn that I think will be a better fit this Thursday.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Well we tried a lesson at the Hunter jumper Barn. I did watch but on the sidelines. I thought it went well and my daughter did too. The instructor at the Hunter jumper Barn is more direct but she's still very down to earth. She really held my daughter accountable when they were tacking up m, which is good. My daughter can just be a little shy or hesitant sometimes and needs a little direction.

She had a lunge lesson and the instructor really focused on her leg and heel, which is what my daughter requested to work on. They did a couple different exercises at the sitting and posting trot. My daughter was tired after but enjoyed it. We were talking afterwards and she said she could see how an instructor like that would help her get to her goal of cantering and doing small jumping. So I think she will take a few more at this barn.

I was very quiet during the lesson besides giving my daughter a thumbs up occasionally to let her know she looked good!

[Moutaineer]

Well, that sounds like a positive step!

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Well, that sounds like a positive step!

I definitely feel much better about this place. Huge emphasis on safety and horsemanship. And they had tack that was perfect for a kid her size. I wouldn't say it's the fanciest place but it's a nice place with a well-run program. hopefully my daughter keeps enjoying it and we can just stay with this program instead

[Ryeissa]

that is excellent news!

[acheyarcher]

emphasis on horsemanship.
that wins over "fancy" every day!
I like that your daughter has a voice in what she thinks she needs and the instructor went there.
You are growing a thinking horsewoman. This sounds like a great place to be.

[lorilu]

The new barn/instructor sounds like a winner.

[gee]

Last week she used a pony she didn't know. It was very fresh and she had to lunge her at the beginning before we even attempted to groom her. My daughter brushed the pony and picked one hoof. That was the only contact she had with the pony. She couldn't lead her. She couldn't do any ground work. I suggested they take a day to do none riding stuff like learning horse anatomy or wrapping. Nothing was done.

Instead the instructor struggled to lead pony around and asked me if I would hop on the pony. I was taken back but sure wasn't putting my daughter on that day. I ended up working with the pony to stand by the mounting block and take a breath. I told her this clearly isn't working and we need to just come back next week with a different pony.

I didn't feel I should pay her a lesson fee. My daughter only brushed the pony for 5 to 10 minutes. I gave her a small amount. She was upset and is now requesting a fee. I'm giving it to her but thinking we just need to switch to a program with more established instructors and ponies. I think asking a parent to do so much is bit inappropriate. I don't mind helping in small ways for an extra hand. But it feels like I'm working! And I don't want my daughter to be taught incorrectly or to get hurt.

What do you guys think?

I think that instructor should have paid you!

[Benatus]

I went through the BHS system and pony club.
You really need to find someone else.

I have seem a host of ineffective instructors, some dangerous.

Trust your instinct.

Why not instruct your daughter yourself?

Sorry if this has been answered, I didn’t read the whole thread.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

She's with a different instructor and improving leaps and bounds.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Update: my daughter's position is nearly perfect and she cantered recently (a big deal for her!) New instructor sure knows how to get results and lay the foundation for her goals.

[acheyarcher]

what a wonderful report