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My friend's horse went down and could not get up (was EPM). She could not reach a vet. She called me and the only thing I have is a 22 rifle. I took that over and I do know where to shot a horse in the head (X) but was not sure the bullet would be adequate. We reached a vet after 30 mins. and he was there 30 mins. later and yes, euthanized him for us.

Would a 22 rifle do the job? Anyone with experience? Sorry, just want to know for sure in case there's a next time.

I believe that it will. We had a horse put down and I think the gun used was a 22.

I believe when I asked my vet, he said he used a .22 . But, do want to make sure you aim correctly - yes the 'X' but also "down the neck" to ensure hitting the brain (which, in a horse, isn't at large as I thought it was).

Yes it will but it definitely needs to be in the right spot. Personally i'd do 2 shots to be sure then check for signs of life and do again if needed etc. A 22 is what most of the saleyards here have for shooting big cattle and i've seen them drop big senior bulls with it.

It will, but remember, the brain is at the top of the head and not between the eyes.

The easiest angle from which to hit the brain if the horse is down is to aim forward from behind the ear so that the bullet travels through the brain and exits the forehead below the level of the ears, but above the eyes.

Anyone who thinks they'll ever need to shoot a horse needs to be confident that they know where the brain is before starting, because it's not where most think it is. They also should know how to check for a corneal reflex, to be sure that the horse is dead before they put the gun away.

If the horse is up he should be tied so that he can't run off wounded, and one should always bring extra ammunition in case they need it.

No one wants to have to do it, but if a horse is suffering and there aren't any better options it's not a bad thing for someone to know how to do it cleanly and humanely.

That was my concern, cleanly and humanely. I arrived there with my rifle and knew to shot at the X between the ears/eyes but did not feel confident enough to know for sure the 22 would do the job. So we talked about it and then tried the vets again and one did answer who happened to be on a call close by, PHEW.

It was an awful feeling. Thanks everyone for your replies. Really good advise.

Well, when I was 14 and had to have my Morgan pony put down, I didn't want to be present. My dad went for me and being who he was, didn't trust the vet who had a big heart, but wasn't really a large animal vet. My dad brought his 22 "just in case". Well, my pony was a tough nut, and the vet didn't bring enough euthanol, so in the end, my dad had to shoot my pony while the vet sobbed. I didn't want to answer yes right away to your question because I didn't know if a 22 would be enough alone, but it was definitely enough to finish what the vet couldn't. I found out by accident 7 years later and was really glad I didn't have to witness that fiasco in person.

I'm so sorry you had to learn of it at all Minz. (((((((((HUGS)))))))))

I would think it would really depend on the passage the bullet took, would it not? No doubt the animal would go down, but it might not die right away. Don't they use 22s in some slaughter houses to drop the animals in order to facilitate bleeding them out? I'm only speculating, but I can tell you that a human can take a 20 gauge shot gun blast to the face/forehead at close quarters and live for several hours at least. And this is with the pellets ricocheting off the back of the skull (vs. existing) and pinging back around in the brain. Don't ask me how I know.

Koolkat wrote:I would think it would really depend on the passage the bullet took, would it not? No doubt the animal would go down, but it might not die right away. Don't they use 22s in some slaughter houses to drop the animals in order to facilitate bleeding them out? I'm only speculating, but I can tell you that a human can take a 20 gauge shot gun blast to the face/forehead at close quarters and live for several hours at least. And this is with the pellets ricocheting off the back of the skull (vs. existing) and pinging back around in the brain. Don't ask me how I know.

As long as they were out cold and didn't regain consciousness before they died I'd be okay with how it went. It's not a bad idea to put 4 or 5 bullets into the brain though, just to be sure, because having to euthanize is bad enough without having someone mess it up.

kande50 wrote:

Koolkat wrote:I would think it would really depend on the passage the bullet took, would it not? No doubt the animal would go down, but it might not die right away. Don't they use 22s in some slaughter houses to drop the animals in order to facilitate bleeding them out? I'm only speculating, but I can tell you that a human can take a 20 gauge shot gun blast to the face/forehead at close quarters and live for several hours at least. And this is with the pellets ricocheting off the back of the skull (vs. existing) and pinging back around in the brain. Don't ask me how I know.

As long as they were out cold and didn't regain consciousness before they died I'd be okay with how it went. It's not a bad idea to put 4 or 5 bullets into the brain though, just to be sure, because having to euthanize is bad enough without having someone mess it up.

Saddlebum wrote:I'm so sorry you had to learn of it at all Minz. (((((((((HUGS)))))))))

Thanks. Fortunately enough time had passed that I was more shocked than traumatized, but I felt so bad that my dad was put in that position. To my parents' credit, they never said a word. It was the vet who let it slip accidentally, not remembering that I owned the pony in question. Also, to my knowledge, the vet never made that mistake again.

A quick Internet search produced two sites with pretty close to the same recommendations:

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/lo ... ses2-2.pdf

And

http://www.equisearch.com/article/equin ... asia-17724

Of note, while they didn't rule out the .22 caliber cartridge, the 9 mm or .38 caliber hand gun were the recommended firearms. (For those not familiar with firearms, 9mm and .38 are the same size bullet.) The second article had some doubt as to the the .22s ability to penetrate the skull of a larger horse.

The first article recommended the .22 caliber but stated the .38 or 9mm would also work.

The second article did recommend all three the same but said some people think the .22 may not have enough velocity for a large draft type horse.

The first article gave a very good detail description of placement of the bullet with pictures. VERY helpful. As one person above said down the neck and I could not get the picture in my mind how to do that when standing in front of the horse but the first article with pics made it very clear.

Thank You!

It will, i'm quite sure it is what's used in Canadian slaughter houses as it's considered more humane for horses than the captive bolt.

orono wrote:It will, i'm quite sure it is what's used in Canadian slaughter houses as it's considered more humane for horses than the captive bolt.

I'm happy to say I'm not an expert on this topic, but isn't the intent to render the animal unconscious rather than kill it? I believe they want the heart beating to aid in bleeding the animal out after the neck is slit. The purpose of the bolt or bullet is to render the animal unconscious long enough to get its hind legs in the chains to raise if off the ground and for it to be unconscious while it bleeds to death.

Apologies for the graphic. Ugh.

Koolkat wrote:
I'm happy to say I'm not an expert on this topic, but isn't the intent to render the animal unconscious rather than kill it? I believe they want the heart beating to aid in bleeding the animal out after the neck is slit. The purpose of the bolt or bullet is to render the animal unconscious long enough to get its hind legs in the chains to raise if off the ground and for it to be unconscious while it bleeds to death.

It may be the other way around, as I think the captive bolt's purpose (depending on the type and how it's used) is to stun without destroying the brain stem. A bullet would penetrate further into the skull, so would be more likely to hit the brain stem, which would make the heart to stop beating.

I don't know if that is the intent in 'regular' slaughter. It is for both Kosher & Halal purposes regarding bleeding out. The captive bolt was designed for the structure of the bovine skull/brain, and is not considered humane for horses, though I don't know the exact details of how/why.

Koolkat wrote:

orono wrote:It will, i'm quite sure it is what's used in Canadian slaughter houses as it's considered more humane for horses than the captive bolt.

I'm happy to say I'm not an expert on this topic, but isn't the intent to render the animal unconscious rather than kill it? I believe they want the heart beating to aid in bleeding the animal out after the neck is slit. The purpose of the bolt or bullet is to render the animal unconscious long enough to get its hind legs in the chains to raise if off the ground and for it to be unconscious while it bleeds to death.

Apologies for the graphic. Ugh.

No, the heart does not need to be beating to help drain out. Gravity does a fine job.

Sharonbc wrote:No, the heart does not need to be beating to help drain out. Gravity does a fine job.

Is that the preferred SOP in slaughter houses, though? The heart will speed up the process.

I seem to remember a poster from UDBB that did a bit of "processing" for game (deer, I remember). Was that you?

they do not try to stun horses and not kill them in slaughter houses, as said, gravity drains the blood sufficiently. I have not been to on in mexico which i hear is not handled as well as canada or south africa or zambia was, but the idea is to kill the brain. Keeping the heart beating is not a priority.

it is only the religions that require the animal to bleed out that do not want the animal dead until the heart has pumped its last.

With apologies to OP.


From the USDA regs on animal slaughter:

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE FOOD SAFETY AND INSPECTION SERVICE
WASHINGTON, DC
FSIS DIRECTIVE 6900.2 10/7/03
Humane Handling and Slaughter of Livestock


PART IV -- Stunning Methods
Appropriate stunning methods are required for an establishment to be in compliance with the HMSA. When stunning is done correctly, animals feel no pain, are rendered instantly unconscious, and remain unconscious until slaughtered. There are four methods of stunning approved for livestock. A summary of these approved stunning methods appear below (refer to 9 CFR sections 313.5, 313.15, 313.16 and 313.30).

I've edited information under the 4 methods for brevity:

1) Carbon dioxide gas may be used to slaughter and handle sheep, calves and swine

1) Captive bolt stunners may be used to slaughter and handle sheep, swine, goats, calves, cattle, horses, mules, and other equines.
2) The captive bolt stunners shall be applied to livestock so as to produce immediate unconsciousness in the animals before they are shackled, hoisted, thrown, cast, or cut

1) Shooting by firearms may be used to slaughter and handle cattle, calves, sheep, swine, goats, horses, mules, and other equines.
2) A single shot delivery of a bullet or projectile into the animal is to produce immediate unconsciousness in the animal before it is shackled, hoisted, thrown, cast or cut
(There may be info about the size of the gun, but it is in another section and I don't have time to pursue it now. )

1) Electric current may be used to slaughter and handle swine, sheep, calves, cattle, and goats.
2) The animal shall be exposed to the electric current in a way that will accomplish surgical anesthesia (a state where an animal feels no painful sensation) quickly and effectively before they are shackled, hoisted, thrown, cast, or cut.