"Mature aged" working students - advice?

[Flight]

So, I'm seriously considering taking some long service leave and annual leave to do some time as a working student somewhere.
I've been doing the same job for 17 years (!!!!) and while I doubt I'd leave the job, would love a break and have ALWAYS wanted to be a working student with horses.
I'm 40, but no health or fitness problems.
Has anyone actually done this, even as a younger person?

I did consider a holiday, like the ones where you can do in Spain etc and have dressage lessons everyday, but I'm taking about taking several months leave and I couldn't afford a holiday of several months!
I'd like to stay locally around home as I have my own house/dogs/horses (no husband or kids) but there really is only one dressage place, and she hasn't replied to my email (should I now try and phone??).
So, now I'm even considering overseas somewhere .. opinions???

[Figgy]

a friend of mine quit her job and moved from Queensland to Europe to take up a working pupil job in her 30s. she found it tough, she had her days when she felt she was being bullied, she worked really hard, and learned a lot. She'd broken in and trained several horses here from scratch before she went, so over there as a dressage student, her ability to start horses the 'natural way' (ie she starts them bareback and in a rope halter and is riding them in a relaxed manner in a few days) and her ability to teach horses to load onto trucks gave her an in that other younger students didn't have.

She ended up staying on in Europe as her work experience in Queensland was transferrable to the European market. So now she's working in the corporate world in Europe, living with the love of her life and enjoying riding horses in Europe.

I think the winters were the hardest on her at first, she'd grown up in the gulf country (tropics) and previously thought that anything under 10C was too cold for human survival. She describes asking what these bleeding lumps on her hands and feet were and being told they were chilblains and not knowing how to manage them as tough.

If you really want to do this, and its something you love, go for it.

[Flight]

Thanks Figgy, that's a good story to hear!!
I realise it's going to be a lot of hard work, especially at first and I'll be outshone by 'kids' but I'm willing to suck it up in order to learn what I want. Just a matter of finding where to do it.

[Sue B]

Oh wow, Flight, I have a friend who did that for her 50th birthday year. She did a 6mos working student stint at a bnt barn several states away from husband and son. She said it was hard work but a lot of fun, and she learned a lot about upper level training and riding. Her only real difficulty was the bnt kept trying to "steal" the client's horse she'd brought--really more of an annoyance since client had zero interest in changing trainers. Lol. She used some of that time to also get her certification from USDF too. I would do it in a heart beat, if I didn't have a dh and ds who would NOT be happy. Lol

[KathyK]

You will never know unless you try, right? I don't think 40 is too old, at all. Good luck!

[Flight]

Thanks Sue B another good story. I was thinking there would be mostly bad ones!
Also, if it turns out really crap I can always just leave and go back to my normal job.

[fergusnc]

No advice or stories but wanted to say good for you! That sounds like a wonderful adventure if you feel like it is calling your name! You only live once, right?

[bailey]

Another encourager here, I say go for it! I'm 57 and would love to do this as well. It seems like wisdom, maturity, inner strength and calm are qualities a mature working student would bring. I hope you keep us posted on how it goes.
ps Surely there must be someone in FL that could use your help for the next couple months??!

[Minz]

An eventer I know took on a man in his 60's as a working student. The gentleman was a retired university lecturer, and had always wanted to be a working student, so he did, and loved it. IIRC he only did it here for the summer because he was a snowbird. I am not sure if he found someone in Ocala to take him on for the winter.
I think the difference being a mature working student is that you have so much more life experience, so you are not going to take being treated like garbage. Your mentor will know also that you are not beholden to them for everything so they will automatically treat you better than they might a younger person.
Good luck, I think it would be a blast.

[Chisamba]

I can tell you what i did, when i was young, to get a working student position. I sent out letters to every trainer i was interested in, with my resume, experience and why i thought i could help them. I got three back, and ended up going for two years to one. It was transformative in my life.

I imagine it would be the same way for a more mature person. I agree with Minz, a more mature person would be treated with a little more respect, i think, but no matter what, I had to shelve my ego, and be more of a sponge than a rock . good luck i hope it works out for you

[greenhorse]

Go for it!

[Keysfins]

I'm an "older" working student. Go for it!

My situation: I have been with my trainers over 15 years. I was familiar with the daily routine, and would help out any time needed, at shows, or back at the barn when they were away at shows, if someone was traveling, etc.

When my horse was laid up, I still needed my horse fix, and I became a PTWS: part time working student. I already knew the horses, the tack, how my trainers wanted horses prepared, who went in which turnout, and so on. My trainers, in turn, knew how I worked around the horses, my work ethic, and my strengths. I may not be the most talented rider as a working student, but I am dedicated and responsible. I have skills that were valuable, I have standards of care that reflect those of my trainers.

I can take on tasks independently without being directed, and I am organized. I can take care of vet treatments as directed, hold horses when needed for vet or farrier. I can give a potential client a facility tour, showcasing the amenities. I can welcome a new client bringing in their horse, help them get settled, and give them a sort of orientation while collecting any relevant information about the horse's needs.

Over the last year, my riding HAS improved a great deal. I'm not ready to hop on a silly green bean, or a horse with known/dangerous issues, but my seat is better than ever. I can sit a spook, I can get a horse's attention back to work, I can make corrections if I am schooling a horse, and I can also execute directions if I am having a lesson. My goals are not to ride at Grand Prix level in competition, though that would be great. Instead, my goals are to steadily improve my riding, my skills, my timing, and improve my execution of the actual training of a horse.

This past year has helped me reach a fitness level that I didn't really think I would regain. I was very fit and strong in my 20's and 30's. The last decade, not so much, due to several physical/health issues. So I was really pleased this past year that I not only felt strong and fit, I also lost a significant amount of weight from April to November. I needed a smaller size in breeches!

I hope to continue as a working student as long as possible, barring any physical issues. Even when I was not able to ride, I could fill up a day's work with other tasks. I do have some chronic ailments that I have come to accept. On days when something flares up, and I am unable to ride, I am still able to work. I typically work 3-4 days a week, 5 if something is going on like someone traveling, or a show week. My schedule can be flexible, but I have to be realistic; I don't work a 6 day work week because I do need to rest, and have a life at home.

Figure out your strengths, your goals, and what makes you valuable as a member of the team. Then go find the right situation! And if you are ever wondering what you should be doing, pick up a broom. There is ALWAYS sweeping to be done!
Feel free to PM if you have questions.

[Flight]

Well, HR got back to me and I have 5 months of long service leave available
Aaaand, a PERFECT sounding position came up locally tonight on the yard and groom site. I'm sooo excited! But not really sure how to do a 'horsey' resume??

Keysfins, thanks so much for your post! It will help me form my application for jobs and think about how I could be suitable etc, and sound like I might have an idea what goes on for a working pupil

[Keysfins]

You're welcome, I hope it is helpful. Please update when you land your spot!

[Tarlo Farm]

Keys, great to get that update! And you guys stayed in CO for the winter due to this new adventure?

[Keysfins]

Tarlo, no, we are actually in Florida for the winter. We moved from the Keys to the Sarasota area a few years ago. The climate in the Keys, even in winter, was just too hot and humid. <<<melting>>>

I am currently a groom for a dressage trainer from Maryland, who has horses in Venice at a big facility. It is about a 30 minute drive from me, so similar to my barn in CO. She comes for about 3 months every year to keep her horses fit and progressing in training over the winter. A mutual friend put us in touch, and I am working hard, hoping to keep MY fitness and strength going. I have six horses to care for, and everything that goes with that. Trainer is happy that I am so "well trained" as a groom, and six is a lot easier than some 30 up in CO. Not that a day is a piece of cake, I am always on my feet doing something! Skills and abilities transferred well, it is a mutually beneficial arrangement.

[M&M]

Flight, any news?

[Flight]

Yes, some. Not so good. The local girl got back to me and she wants either a better rider, or someone more long term. Also, because I'm older and have a good (sounding) current job, people seem to feel that their work wont be enough for me. Even if I explain that I'm after easy (though labour intensive) work as a break from my current job.

So, I'm thinking I've missed the boat. I'm trying to see if I can do it away from home, but it is hard when I have my own place, horses and dogs to look after. Might just have to have a holiday instead

[klark_kent07]

Flight, you could come up north and stay with my coach! Either as a working student or holiday. Although I'm guessing you would want to wait until it gets cooler to venture up here

[Flight]

klark_kent you're up FNQ somewhere, right? Yes, I'll wait until summer is over LOL!! Actually that might be a good place to go when it's winter down here
I've got one more local place to ask and then I'll have to look further out.

[M&M]

Well, that is too bad, but yes, I would keep trying.

[klark_kent07]

Yes, up in Bowen. 2 hours south of Townsville. It's certainly warm up here at the moment but our winters are amazing!
I'll PM you my coach's website so you can have a look just in case you are interested down the track

[Flight]

Klark_kent, her place looks fabulous!!! Thanks for the website. She sounds well set up for working students too.

I've asked another local, and he's undecided as he hasn't taken on a working student like this before so needs to think about how he'd go about it. I'm willing to give him a bit of time, because I'd love to spend the full time learning more of his methods.
BUT the original girl has got back to me and said she'd take me on for the groom role, but get someone else in for the riding. Bummer about the riding, but I could still go and learn and watch and have a weekly lesson from her on my horses.

So, I'm just waiting for my LSL application to be approved and I'm sure I'll at least become an expert in picking up horse sh!t ! Hang on, I"m already an expert at that!!!

[Flight]

Just an update, I've got a spot where I will also be riding and learning in-hand work as well in exchange for the usual manual labour stuff.

2 weeks left of work then 4 glorious (I hope!) months off doing HORSEY STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hoopoe]

Neat!

I left a job and had a job to go to, only 2 months out

I worked for my trainer ( dressage) every morning and was home by 200 to watch a wonderful Korean Soap Opera.

It was a very wonderful transition. I was burned out, had just lost my Mom. I think these 2 months gave me the courage to go forward

[klark_kent07]

That's awesome Flight, can't wait to hear all about your adventures!!!
Learning the in hand work is fascinating as well, I've been working on the short steps in hand with my horse and we have progressed to starting them under saddle in the last 2 months. So awesome to see the progression!

[Flight]

So I've started this week

The work isn't too hard. He has about 10 horses there, and not all in work. So, I'm there about 8 (earlier if need be) to do the morning feeds, muck out a few yards. Most horses are paddocked. Saddle/unsaddle, groom, hose etc. He gets the client's horses done first and then his own.
I've ridden one of his twice now. Wow I SUCK at riding other horses! I got on and it went full camel on me

Luckily the trainer is easy going, it's no stress and he's happy to answer all my questions. I've done a bit of lunging and in hand work with his horses (who know the drill, luckily) and I'm such a gumby, tripping over lunge reins, dropping whips, but hey I can only get better, right!

It is a major shift in my riding though. So I know everyone hates the 'classical vs modern' terminology with training, however it's just easy to say he is classical. So lots about bending and lateral work, self carriage and balance, chewing the bit. I've come from 7 years with an instructor who tends more to having them lower in front and round and strongly forward.
Great learning

[bailey]

You're living the dream! Have fun and hope you keep the updates coming.

[demi]

I'm excited for you! yes, keep us posted.

[Flight]

So, I've been there 2 months now. Settled into a good routine, and getting the hang of the riding style. The highlight is getting to ride the Andalusion stallion! He is very responsive and tries really hard to get what I'm trying to tell him, so he's the best teacher in that regard.
I'm realising I'm a slow learner and I have to be patient with myself and the training, that it's all not going to happen overnight.
My own horses are going really well and I'm still enjoying it.

[Chisamba]

Super

[bailey]

great, thanks for the update, you're living my dream. Hope you keep the updates coming.
ps, riding an Andy Stallion doesn't sound like the work of a slow learner, just sayin!

[fergusnc]

Yay! How long will you be there? Any photos yet? Sounds awesome…especially the personality of your pro…I like calm and willing to answer questions!

[Flight]

I've got another 2 months, I have to be back at work sometime near the end of July. Boo hoo!

No pics yet, I've been too shy to ask him to take some when I'm riding his horses, but I definitely will have to before I leave there!

[piedmontfields]

Flight, it is so cool that you are doing this! I've been following your work in the training forum but I didn't realize you were doing an intensive WS position. Sounds like hard, good work.

[Flight]

Well, I've finished my working student placement!

At the start I thought, "I'm going to be an amazing rider when I'm finished here!"
Well I'm not LOL BUT even if I didn't gain as much of an improvement with my technical riding skills as I'd have liked, I feel I learned a lot mentally, and learned a better understanding of a training system, so I feel much more happier and content with my horses and training.

I saw several client's horses that had not long been started under saddle (by someone else), but their owners were having trouble so they were sent for more training, and was able to watch them be re-started, making sure that they were ready for the next step by groundwork and in-hand work, then basics and gymnastic work under saddle. I saw horses transformed by this. On the first couple of days they were on the lunge, stiff and shuffling and resisting and looking very average, but gradually they loosened up, were forward, and after only a few weeks were really nice looking horses!

For me, one of the big things I learned is the value of asking and waiting, not making a horse to do something and thinking "I HAVE to do this NOW". More about thinking why a horse is resisting, e.g, is it responding to the aids, and if not why not? Is it physically capable of responding? What can I do/how can I position it to help it respond better? These things make the horses much more willing and they learn how to work better, not because they are made to work better.
Technically, I learned how positioning my body correctly, will get the horse to position properly. I have a deeper understanding on how to teach and use inside leg, and better use of outside rein and how to have a horse responsive to the aids.

Gymnastic exercises - I feel I now have a better understanding of lateral work and the use of piaffe to improve the horse's flexibility and mobility, rather than just doing them because they are an exercise you need to do in a dressage test. I did know that lateral work helps with flexibility and engagement, but now I've been able to see how this works!

I realise I've only dipped my toe into all this understanding, I know that I'm not a quick learner or a natural but I have to accept this and just keep going. But, it's been great watching and learning a lot of information in a relatively short time and i can't wait to see where we are at in a few years time.

[Anne]

Nice summary Flight, and congratulations on your learnings, I'm sure your experiences will be hugely beneficial for your future riding.

[goneriding]

It sounds like you learned a LOT, and all great stuff. What a great opportunity!