I've changed my mind about something important.

[Rockabilly]

How to start this......well, I've changed my mind about something important and it is about horses. Every once in a while on the old UDBB and maybe on this one I have seen topics about people putting down their horses rather than have them suffer or a case of a poster who just did not know what to do with her horses because she could not take care of them anymore. I may not have posted in so many words, but I would be aghast. I just couldn't see it. I just couldn't do it. I went through hell and high water with Billy because we could not give up. In this instance I am not talking about Billy, but I am beginning to see and understand somewhat that a person would much rather have their horse put down in cases where one would not know what happened to their horse and they do this as one last act of love. Yes, I am beginning to see this as one last act of love. This has been a lot for me to say and admit because I know some of you know how adament I can be on this topic. It is a lot for me to admit and I want to say how very sorry I am to have judged so harshly and bitterly someone who is searching for answers and understanding.

[Chisamba]

It is hard to change your mind on something important, and even harder to admit it. Choosing to terminate the life of a beloved is very hard, under all and any circumstances.

[silk]

Huge respect to you, Rockabilly. I have seen how strongly you were prepared to "fight" (eg, keep on doing what was necessary for the horse's wellbeing and survival).

I don't mean this to sound cliche, but I honestly believe "there are worse things than death." That doesn't mean that the decision will ever be easy, but I do think that as animal owners, we owe it to them to consider all alternatives before making our (informed) decision.

[Suzon]

It's a big deal. I think about this a lot because I have two mares that are inseparable (mother and daughter). Tempi, the daughter, has never been a happy horse. She's fine to work with but is unhappy undersaddle and I'm sure she's uncomfortable. I've never found the key, but she's just not happy. She's completely attached to her mother and the one time in her life she was separated from her for a year, it was reported she was very unhappy. Her mother is now 27 and won't live forever. I keep wondering what I'm going to do with Tempi when she goes. Do I put them down together? Do I wait and see if she's OK just living with her father? Is it fair to her either way? I just don't know.

[WheresMyWhite]

With no intention whatsoever to be flip... there are worse things than death for all of us.

Knowing what to do in all your cases is not easy and I suspect each and every one of us would have our own call on 'what to do'.

Rockabilly, no worries. Life is about growing and changing and sometimes changing an opinion on something significant or important. That's ok. What is so awesome to me is that you have continued to think and noodle and had the courage to re-think your opinion...

Suzon, I feel for your tough choices that you may, some day, have to make...

[redsoxluvr]

Everyone's situation is different. Rockabilly, your love for Billy was the stuff of legend. That horse could not have had a better caretaker than you.

When you have such a strong commitment it's hard to see a different outcome. No story is exactly the same and what's easy for one person is absolutely insurmountable to another.

Sometimes all you can do is give people the benefit of the doubt and be kind.

[M&M]

Rockabilly, you impress me. Being open to change one's mind is a beautiful thing, and it takes courage.

[angela9823]

I recently read a great book about a paraplegic person - fiction before anyone asks. The author did a fabulous job in making the reader fall in love with the character. In about the middle of the book, the reader finds out that the person wanted to end his life. He had a great caregiver whom devoted herself to his well being. They fall in love and he still wants to go through the plan of assisted suicide. Nothing she does talks him out of it. He tells her it is because of the quality of life. He was extremely active and full of life before his accident. As a paraplegic, he has seizures, can't do anything for himself, must rely fully on the person caring for him to bath him correctly so he doesn't get sores and get sick. You have to put a LOT of trust in someone to care that greatly for you. And then when that person dies, it starts over again. In the end, he goes to Sweden to commit the assisted suicide.

I feel this way about animals in my care. Horses have to rely on us fully to care for them. When one is so full of life, we as caregivers have to make the right decision by them if something goes wrong. We have to really know if it is the right thing to continue fighting and how hard it is on them - mentally and physically. In some situations, we have to determine if that being could really be sane without another being in its life. Will that animal - mentally - be okay without its mother for instance. I think about the same with people too - the mothers whom have to worry about their handicapped child and the care that child will receive after the parent is gone. That thought must stress a parent to no end. At least we have the choice with our animals. We can make a decision that no one else will care the same way. And maybe that is a selfish arrogant thought, but like others, I believe there are worse things than death for our pets.

[clanter]

Rock and I went through a similar time, us with Shamrock Foxie Joy. I am not sure if a horse ever had a more appropriate name as Foxie, she was smart, a fast learner, enjoyed doing everything...she was truly a joy. We had the financial ability and the place for her, we just fulfilled our promise to her that she would have a place for life.

About two years before she crossed the bridge, evidently she was injured in a pasture dispute causing nerve damage to her front right leg, she lost most of the use.

With the help of our wonder vet and farrier, both who like the horse, they did things that were just beyond the call of duty to help care for her. She was able to live out her life her, under oversight. Her care did require more than the average horse but we owed it to her.

Her last day was a peaceful one, I had completely stripped her stall, replace the bedding, even clean the walls..... she came in to be under her fans, laying down.... she just went to sleep and never woke up. No signs of struggle as all the bedding was just in place as I had put it.

[kande50]

It is a lot for me to admit and I want to say how very sorry I am to have judged so harshly and bitterly someone who is searching for answers and understanding.

We start out idealistic because we want everything to be black and white so that we know what we should do, but life is full of tough decisions because there's so much we can't know. And one of the things we can't know is what our horses would choose if they understood the choices and could tell us what they wanted us to do for them.

I will say though, that I, and many of my friends who have had horses for a long time, are much quicker to euthanize than we were when we were younger (and perhaps believed that more things could be fixed if we just put more resources into fixing them)?

[LeoApp]

Tricia, what you did for Billy was not something everyone would have done. Some might have judged you for being cruel in keeping him alive after his catastrophic founder. But I guarantee if he was suffering you would have known it, and you would have put him down because you loved him so much.
There is always room to change our minds in this life. Sometimes it is hard to do unless you "walk a mile in someone else's shoes".

[Kelo]

Props to you for this.

Being able to even consider other points of view in an emotional topic such as this, not to mention adjusting your view, takes wisdom and courage.

[Wicky]

Again, my admiration for you exceeds my ability to express it.

[Sue B]

Wow, rockabilly, I am impressed. That must have been a difficult revelation to arrive at, given how long and hard you advocated for Billy. Thank you for sharing.

[Rockabilly]

Wow, rockabilly, I am impressed. That must have been a difficult revelation to arrive at, given how long and hard you advocated for Billy. Thank you for sharing.

Yes it was.


Thank you all for understanding. What brought me to my final conclusion was Sue and Freeway. Sue is my hero not only for her passionate writing and true understanding, but for the way she loved Freeway with all of her enormous heart. She let Freeway go because she loved him so much. I understand that now.

[seahorsefarm]

Wow, rockabilly, I am impressed. That must have been a difficult revelation to arrive at, given how long and hard you advocated for Billy. Thank you for sharing.

Yes it was.


Thank you all for understanding. What brought me to my final conclusion was Sue and Freeway. Sue is my hero not only for her passionate writing and true understanding, but for the way she loved Freeway with all of her enormous heart. She let Freeway go because she loved him so much. I understand that now.

I truly believe that the vast, vast majority of animal people make their decisions with the best interests of their animals at heart. And it is freeing to one's spirit to conclude this.

[khall]

Well then Rockabilly it seems like Freeway had many lessons to give both in his life and his death.

I could not understand your view because I have been on the care taking side of horses (and dogs) when the call should have been made for their best interest and it was not done (I was vet tech dealing with severely foundered through the bottom mare). For me the decision is made for many reasons, age, temperament, sometimes even money (though that really has not weighed yet in a euthanasia) and also issues that they are dealing with. having held many an animal for the deed as a vet tech and my own, I absolutely know euthanasia is a last gift we can give to our animals. I strongly feel especially with horses that better a day too early than a minute too late. Why I feel that is because of their size and that they are prey animals, getting down and not being able to get up to run would be IMO terrifying to a prey animal and the risks involved with these large creatures when they are not at optimum level (I handled as a tech two severe EPM horses and it was terrifying to do so) it can be dangerous to the handlers and others.

I do not feel that life is always the best course for the animal. I feel that way with my horses and I feel that way being in small animal rescue where I see animals lives extended who probably should not be (aggression issues, medical issues, temperament issues) and it can make for conflict with others because of how I feel. I am glad that you recognize that your judgement of others was harsh and regret those views now. We all have something to learn and I think our animals are good teachers.

[pawsplus]

I'm glad you can see that now, Rockabilly. I have modulated my views over the years as well, primarily because, as I get older, I become more certain that I do not want extreme measures taken to prolong my own life past where I can be productive and happy. So I don't want that for my animals either. I no longer would do what I did for my cat Lenny back in 1990 when she had kidney disease. At the time, it was just too hard to let her go, and I think I felt, subconsciously, that if I threw money and energy at the problem, I could beat it. Instead, I put her through things that I now feel badly about. I won't do it again. I'm glad that I can help them to go when I know they are in chronic discomfort, and I just hope the same will be possible for me when the time comes.

[TeresaA]

Thank you for this.
When Steele broke his humorous bone my brain was scrambling for any way that we could save him. I didn't care if he was never more than a pasture pet i couldn't bear the thought of losing him.But I knew that there was nothing to be done and he was in extreme pain. It was a gift to be there and watch the pain leave his eyes right before he went down. It was the right thing to do but the right thing is often hard.

[Saddlebum]

Suzon, think about a donkey to fill her mother's place. My donk gives off an energy that is enabling, compassionate, sucks you into him for love and much needed hugs. A donkey might help her get over her grief. A consideration.

[Suzon]

Suzon, think about a donkey to fill her mother's place. My donk gives off an energy that is enabling, compassionate, sucks you into him for love and much needed hugs. A donkey might help her get over her grief. A consideration.

Well, she would still have her father (who lives with them and is a gelding now), but I'm not sure she'd be happy. She and her mother are almost literally attached at the hip. They eat out of the same feeder, they go everywhere together nearly side-by-side. She doesn't have a very good temperment, like she's a territorial witch and also uber worried and hypersensative under saddle. So she's obviously unhappy, and I'm sure it's something physical we can't pin down. At one point she spent a year with a breeder (long story, not my idea) who said she was SUPER unhappy the whole time she was there and as soon as she was reunited with her mother, she was much better.

BTW, we have a donkey and I've had lots of donks in the past (I agree they give off good energy), but I'm not sure a donkey would replace her mother. I'm sure a donkey would be fine for a companion if her father was left alone, but not sure Tempi would take to one.

[KathyK]

Yes, I am beginning to see this as one last act of love. This has been a lot for me to say and admit because I know some of you know how adament I can be on this topic. It is a lot for me to admit and I want to say how very sorry I am to have judged so harshly and bitterly someone who is searching for answers and understanding.

Only a mature, thinking, loving person could have written this. I commend you, Rockabilly, for your honesty and courage.

[chantal]

Great post Rockabilly!! Sending you a huge hug, it's been a while.

[Rhianon]

We start out idealistic because we want everything to be black and white so that we know what we should do, but life is full of tough decisions because there's so much we can't know. And one of the things we can't know is what our horses would choose if they understood the choices and could tell us what they wanted us to do for them.

I will say though, that I, and many of my friends who have had horses for a long time, are much quicker to euthanize than we were when we were younger (and perhaps believed that more things could be fixed if we just put more resources into fixing them)?

Well said.

[Chisamba]

Yesterday I saw the end of a life "a day too late". I have never much liked the adage better a day too early than a day too late, but I am now convinced.

It is hard to let a loved horse go under any circumstances, but it can be selfish, cruel, horrific and cowardly to prolong life into catastrophic agony.

[Figgy]

Yes, I've seen so many cases of a day too late that I'm all for a humane death. I've also witnessed a lot of humane deaths (farming childhood and family). Natural deaths can be the source of so much suffering and pain, for humans as well as animals.

I think the English speaking west could also learn a lot from our enlightened European cousins when it comes to euthanasia for humans.

[orono]

^I agree Figgy.

[Chisamba]

Sorry I was a bit upset yesterday

[heronponie]

Understandable chisamba. No one needs or wants to witness something like that. Poor horse

Over the years I've had strong viewpoints on this topic and have been humbled in the face of each of them. What seems like "too soon" or "too late" when you're on the outside of the situation usually looks much different from the inside. I try hard not to judge.

[Kyra's Mom]

Rockabilly. Thank you for your experience and your change of thinking regarding a very tough topic. I marveled at what you did for Billy...realizing most of us out here couldn't come close to what you did for him, even if we wanted to.

Everyone's circumstances are different. It doesn't mean we care any less and sometimes because of circumstances, it tears us up to have to euthanize but I think most people on here are pretty accomplished horse people and make the right decision.

Thank you for sharing your shift in thinking.

Susan

[klark_kent07]

I also never really knew how I felt about this until I was faced with the situation myself. Not with a horse but with my dog. I had always advocated that euthanasia was the best option when there was prolonged pain or suffering for an animal. My dog suddenly developed liver problems/liver cancer when she was a happy and healthy 7 year old. In the space of a week she went down hill but I clung to the hope that we could find a solution.
It wasn't until one night when she started yelping and yelping in pain that I knew it was a day too late. I called the vet and he came and gave her huge amounts of pain medication so she could have one last sleep at home with me that night and then we took her in the next day (she was a great dane so had to try to organise a place to bury her as well). I held her face in my hands as she took her last breath and it was heart breaking, but also a relief to know that she wasn't in pain anymore. I wish that I could have been braver and made the decision the day before, but these are the lessons we learn I guess

[Rhianon]

Sorry I was a bit upset yesterday

Of course you were. Hugs.

[Rhianon]

My dear friend and vet told me that few people ever feel confident they "got it right." Pretty much everyone re-thinks the whole thing and worries they were too late or too hasty.

[LeoApp]

My dear friend and vet told me that few people ever feel confident they "got it right." Pretty much everyone re-thinks the whole thing and worries they were too late or too hasty.

How can you not second guess this decision after it's made? Even when you KNOW it's the right decision, I think it's only human to have second thoughts after the fact. It really helps to have your vet tell you at the time that you are doing the right thing. My cat's vet did, and my horse's vet did, and I often replayed their words in my mind when I started to feel doubts creeping in.

[Ryeissa]

.

[PaulaO]

I had NO second thoughts about putting Bob down on a Monday morning. He went down Sunday afternoon in turnout, we got him up and in, and he went down again Monday morning. Vet was out within 30 minutes and we did the needful.

[Chisamba]

Horses live in the present, they do not save for tomorrow or regret the future. The do not diet because they are fat, it save for lean times. If their present is happy they are happy, if their present is miserable, they endure, usually stoically. That is why nature made predators, to relieve the suffering of the weak, and provide balance.

We have regrets, but a good death is a gift we can give.

[khall]

I have actually felt relief when I have euthanized before. Three times with older horses that were failing and once with an older dog that my DH had difficulty coming to terms with ending his life. I have so much concern and worry and care that I put into these animals that it is a relief to know that they are not suffering or falling or seizing (our dog) anymore. Two of the horses had severe DJD (neck and knee ROM less than 30%), one horse could not keep weight on, would not eat well and constant diarrhea despite all we tried. Our dog too would not eat well and was losing weight, ending up having a seizure at 5 in the morning I called it then. Could not watch him deteriorate anymore. I am glad that euthanizing our animals is an option, cannot imagine having to watch them continue to suffer and die a difficult death.

[Josette]

khall - I so totally agree with you. I will do extensive care provided the animal is eating and not stressed. It takes me forever to let go and make the decision to PTS. Yes - there is relief when it is over to finally grieve but also know my horse or pet is much better off.

[zevida]

I think about this from time to time, with a retired 14-year-old pasture horse. He's fat and happy, but he limps every time he trots. Limping in pain. I'll be honest, it would be nice to not have to pay for him, but I certainly can afford to. But I don't want to keep a horse that's in pain for the next 10-15 years. I visit him a few times a year. But I just don't know. Probably some point where he seems to be in pain even just walked around. What percent of your day in pain is too much, if he only trots around a bit for 5 minutes a day?

[khall]

zevida, two of the horses that I had to euthanize I did because of pain from DJD. Both were not able to lay down to sleep and were sleep deprived to the point of almost falling down in their stalls. Both were beginning to not eat well and were starting to lose weight. No meds helped the neck arthritis and I did not do injections it was too advanced, too numerous and the OTTB was almost 27 yrs old. The other horse was my first born foal, was 21 but had such severe DJD in both knees she had less than 30% ROM plus had a bad stifle in one back leg. I worried so much they would fall in the field and break something that PTS was a relief to me. So I look at the quality of life, can the horse do what horses need to do, eat, sleep and run, if not then I would be thinking along the lines of PTS, regardless of age if the issue is not expected to get better. (for instance I do have a mare who foundered on me last June, she is still up in a stall probably for one more shoeing until her feet grow out enough to be safe for her to be out, she is sound and has been now for several months but vet/farrier are very conservative, if she had gone through the bottom or rotated to the point of needing a tendon cut I would have PTS)

[Shirrine]

Well done for being a caring thinking perso and flexable enough to change your mind.
It never gets better to make these decisions but for me it is the price we pay for having these wonderful creatures and the last loving thing we can do for them. I would like that option for myself when the time comes.

Shirrine

[Paints]

I am struggling with this concept right now. I have started a new job with a no kill cat and dog shelter which I thought would be wonderful. Yesterday was my first day. Previously I have worked in the social services field. As I was being trained yesterday on the amount of veterinary services being given to these animals, all I could think of was that they were spending 1) more than I could on my cats and 2)they were spending more on one animal than it would take to feed a disadvantaged family for a year. Not sure this is going to work for me.

I do wonder that, even if money were no object, at what point is our desire to help our animals going beyond their best interests. I think they fear incapacity, they don't fear death. It's such a hard call though. They can't tell us what they want or how they feel and our love for them makes it hard for us to be completely objective. At the end we have to go with our heart.

[Minz]

Rockabilly,
Thank you for having the strength to share your change of heart on this issue. I always had the greatest admiration of how hard you fought for Billy. You did so much more than I could have (both financially and emotionally) and I was always in awe of the depth of your determination on his behalf. Hugs to you for this.
I have been struggling lately on behalf of an elderly sick neighbour who I am helping to market and disperse his remaining horses. Without getting into details, there is a young but blind since birth horse in the herd for whom extraordinary measures were taken when she was a foal to try and save some vision. Nothing worked, and she still has residual health issues from medications given at the time. Until the remaining horses and farm are sold, she is safe, but I have been secretly thinking of trying to find her a home. A recent long and emotional conversation with our vet has made me see all of the reasons why this is not a good idea, the biggest being the likelihood that once she is out of our control that she could end up with a kill buyer. No piece of paper can protect from that, and there really are things worse than euthanasia. She is a young horse and could outlive all of us. As diligent as we would be, we couldn't realistically keep up regular checks on her for 30 years. It was a hard pill to swallow, but deep down I know my vet is right. The kindest thing is not to put her through the stress of a move that could aggravate her other health issues. He is a kind hearted man who always advocates for the best interest of his animal clients. He was a staunch supporter when the owner wanted to try and save some sight, but now he believes that at the farm closing date, euthanasia is the kindest thing for her. I am glad I have some time to wrap my head around this.

[Josette]

Minz - I sadly agree with your vet that is the most humane decision. This blind horse could have a horrible ending down the road or she could be peacefully end without fear and pain.

[WheresMyWhite]

Minz,

Two things in your reply I absolutely agree with.

Every person has their personal level of commitment to saving an animal, both financial and emotional. I might internally disagree with a choice but would never criticize it as I am not walking in their shoes.

As I said above, there are things worse than death for both animals and people. I get that it hurts and can be hard to be thinking of "prematurely" ending an animal's life, but they only know today and don't have plans for tomorrow. I would rather euthanize than risk their ending up in a much worse place. Since an animal doesn't really get a say in where they go (to what new home), we need to make sure we make responsible decisions, whatever those are, and check in with ourselves to make sure we are as comfortable as we can be that it be right.

[myleetlepony]

I am struggling with this concept right now. I have started a new job with a no kill cat and dog shelter which I thought would be wonderful. Yesterday was my first day. Previously I have worked in the social services field. As I was being trained yesterday on the amount of veterinary services being given to these animals, all I could think of was that they were spending 1) more than I could on my cats and 2)they were spending more on one animal than it would take to feed a disadvantaged family for a year. Not sure this is going to work for me.

I do wonder that, even if money were no object, at what point is our desire to help our animals going beyond their best interests. I think they fear incapacity, they don't fear death. It's such a hard call though. They can't tell us what they want or how they feel and our love for them makes it hard for us to be completely objective. At the end we have to go with our heart.

When I was a teenager, a no-kill animal shelter is what lead me to the thought that "there are fates worse than death". We had just put down our last dog at the time and we donated the food we had leftover. The shelter was clean and the animals were healthy but they were kept locked up for the better part of the day. The shelter told us that they let the dogs out in the yard to run but because they had to do it in groups, they got about an hour or so a day. To me, it was like a prison. Total lack of freedom and very little human interaction. I left with a feeling of sadness.

Rockabilly, I don't know your backstory, however I commend you for having a change of heart. Having worked in a lot of boarding barns throughout the years, it is heartbreaking to see a horse kept alive when you can see in their demeanor that it was past time for the owner to let go. I've driven home many times hoping that a particular horse suddenly had an aneurysm in the middle of the night and went quickly outside of the owner's control.

[greenhorse]

I believe you have to listen to your animal. Are they happy with their life? My old guy and I took it one day at a time for a very long time. I am sure some didn't understand it. They might even have thought it was cruel. But, I knew my boy. I knew when he was happy, and when he was stressed. I knew when something was wrong just by the look on his face.

I don't really agree with the day too soon thing. My guy would have lost out on a lot of life that way. And, he enjoyed his life. And, I enjoyed sharing it with him. When it was time, he let me know, and I called the vet. I was lucky, though. There were no doubts. No second guessing. That was just one more gift that he gave to me. God, he was special. Miss him every single day

[Josette]

greenhorse - thank you for your post. I did the same as you. I actually called the vet twice then cancelled the appts. The vet showed up and he would be calmly eating his hay showing no signs of stress. I would break down and I couldn't do it. The 3rd time was when I had to let him go.

[Code3]

Minz,

Two things in your reply I absolutely agree with.

Every person has their personal level of commitment to saving an animal, both financial and emotional. I might internally disagree with a choice but would never criticize it as I am not walking in their shoes.

As I said above, there are things worse than death for both animals and people. I get that it hurts and can be hard to be thinking of "prematurely" ending an animal's life, but they only know today and don't have plans for tomorrow. I would rather euthanize than risk their ending up in a much worse place. Since an animal doesn't really get a say in where they go (to what new home), we need to make sure we make responsible decisions, whatever those are, and check in with ourselves to make sure we are as comfortable as we can be that it be right.

Beautifully said, WMW. My only regrets have been when I waited too long, ironically both times with cats. I am more and more grateful to my one horse who literally dropped dead in his pasture, apparently from an aneurism. There was no struggle and, although he was way too young to leave (18), he had a peaceful ending, was still in (seeming) good health, and spared me ever having to make that decision. I do strongly believe in the "better one day too early than a minute too late" motto but I understand those who do not. Regardless of where we stand, it is a difficult and heart wrenching decision to make.