Ariel and the new farrier

[PaulaO]

I used the same farrier for 3 years. Ariel was no problem for him. He ghosted me so, I used the barn farrier and she totally misbehaved so on went the twitch. He did a competent job but I wasn't completely happy so I went on the farrier hunt. I contacted the journeyman farrier who is "the man" around here. He isn't taking new clients but he referred me to a farrier who is AFA certified and who works with him 2 days a week. We had an appointment yesterday. I really like him. He knows his stuff and is a nice guy. Ariel acted up with him to the point we gave her Ace. There is nothing about the new farrier (initials MO) that is threatening. MO is very kind and patient and even said she's not the worst horse he has ever done (cold comfort). I was a wreck. Even after Ace, I had to have someone else hold her because I thought I was going to vomit and pass out. I got home at 7--had to wait for the Ace to wear off so she could have supper. I was starving, still a ball of anxiety, and ate a bunch of junk food instead of dinner.

I don't understand the change in her behavior. She was done in a different section of the barn than usual, so maybe that contributed to her anxiety. I know she's not in any pain, and was fine for her hind feet trim.

I feel like a bad owner for having to Ace her.

OTOH, MO is very professional, set up an appointment for 6 weeks, led me through the process (there is always room to learn!). I like him and will continue to use him.

I feel like a bad owner for having to Ace her......

[PhoenixRising]

I used to tell my clients back when I was starting horses that if you expect something bad to happen your horse will pick up on it and something bad will happen. If you go out as if nothing is different, your horse will be more relaxed as well. It's amazing what sensitive creatures they are, even when we're on the ground.

Is it possible Miss A. is actually picking up on your anxiety because you went in expecting her to act up since it was a different farrier?
You're not a bad owner for needing to ace her, its better that everyone stays safe! I have to sedate Phoenix to body clip.

ETA: I also cant blame her for acting up if she had to be twiched last time. I'd be upset too. I think maybe a combination of things going on here.

[piedmontfields]

Hopefully she will get used to the new farrier and set up. Safety for all is important, so if Ace helped, there you go.

This is not quite the same topic, but I had my regular chiropractor treat my horse while I was out of town last month. Usually my mare is a total gem and loves her sessions. Not this time! Even though she knows the chiro and likes her, she was quite nervous and resistant, and it was a much less impactful session than usual. I should have just postponed the session until I could be there. We don't always know how much support or routine our horses need to feel comfortable until they don't have it.

[StraightForward]

I used to tell my clients back when I was starting horses that if you expect something bad to happen your horse will pick up on it and something bad will happen. If you go out as if nothing is different, your horse will be more relaxed as well. It's amazing what sensitive creatures they are, even when we're on the ground.

Is it possible Miss A. is actually picking up on your anxiety because you went in expecting her to act up since it was a different farrier?
You're not a bad owner for needing to ace her, its better that everyone stays safe! I have to sedate Phoenix to body clip.

ETA: I also cant blame her for acting up if she had to be twiched last time. I'd be upset too. I think maybe a combination of things going on here.

Yes, I have to wonder if she's picking up on your cues. Maybe next time someone else could handle her the entire time? I'm always surprised at how well my horses behave for the vet techs that just expect them to behave and ignore silliness (e.g. Tesla nearly runs me over trotting in hand, but is perfect for the diminutive vet tech when she's "up" from being in a new environment.)

[heddylamar]

I had the same thought as Phoenix and StraightForward -- is Miss A picking up your anxiety?

Is there someone else who can handle her for the next appointment? If it were me, I'd remove myself entirely from the equation and not visit the mare until after the appointment if possible.

[texsuze]

I agree that perhaps having someone else handle Miss A for the next visit might take "owner input" out of the equation--not unlike, the vet techs who could always successfully clip our dog's nails, yet we could not ;( Having said that, horses can be so used to THEIR routine and expectations that, horror of horrors!, if something should change, my goodness the world stops spinning on its axis and they have a hissy fit. Don't feel bad about using ace to get the job done and keep everyone safe. Your farrier sounds like he's worth keeping. But Miss A does need to behave, especially since she is capable of doing so.

And to hijack your thread my farrier was here yesterday and said, quote: "I'd love to take your horse to a farrier clinic to be the 'subject'--he's so calm and well-behaved. He'd probably stand for hours without a problem. I wish all my clients' horses were like him; I love this guy!"...kiss on forehead....!

[blob]

How is she when you work with her feet? Is it an area that is generally one where she doesn't have a ton of comfort?

[kande50]

I don't understand the change in her behavior. She was done in a different section of the barn than usual, so maybe that contributed to her anxiety. I know she's not in any pain, and was fine for her hind feet trim.

Would it be too difficult to take her back to the part of the barn where she was comfortable before, just to see if she still is?

There's no way to rule out pain, although horses can be very stoic so it could be a combo of underlying pain coupled with anxiety.

I get under a lot of horses, and what an owner thinks is calm and cooperative is not necessarily what I think is calm and cooperative, so it's possible that what you're seeing is an uncomfortable horse who can cope with a farrier who knows how to work with her, but can't cope under different circumstances? You can figure this out by getting under her yourself, just as a farrier would, and going through the motions a farrier would.

I've seen farriers who could get under a horse without making the horse uncomfortable enough so that it felt the need to react, and I've seen farriers who were too bulky and inflexible themselves to be able to accommodate some horses. I've also watched farriers take way too long, and watched others who only put the hoof down when the horse started to fuss, which effectively rewarded the horse for fussing until the farrier had succeeded in teaching him that if he didn't want to hold his hoof up any longer all he had to do is pull it away and put it down.

[PaulaO]

Next time we will go to the aisle where she usually has her feet done. Prior to me owning her, she always has her feet done in the front aisle of the barn and she never acted up. I’ve always had her done in the back aisle. This time I did have someone else who I trust hold her and she still acted up. That’s when Ace was suggested. The new farrier has a good way with horses. He let her sniff him and he petted her before he started.

I don’t know. Maybe she’s just decided she’s a red head and a butt head. She’s fine when I pick her feet but as you know, that takes about 15 seconds.

[blob]

When I was starting youngsters I spent a lot of time trying to mimic what a farrier does to get them used to it. I'd pick up feet and hold them between my legs for an extended period. Maybe you doing that will help

[Srhorselady]

I agree with Blob. A little practice won’t hurt. All it takes is one bad experience and they (horses) decide that they are going to hurt or be uncomfortable every time the farrier shows up. It will probably take many times to reduce her reactivity. Also she’s a mare and a red head . (I love them).

[Josette]

My guy is a very sensitive type too. He completely trusts me (now) but he is very suspicious of strangers touching him. When the equine dentist puts on that head lamp ----> MONSTER!! We take it slow and let him check it out and then he is very cooperative. She may have had some bad experiences in the past - so this new farrier may really make the difference in her handling after a few times. I'm glad to hear you are not using the guy with the twitch. Everyone needs to stay safe so a little ACE is not a bad thing. Patience....

[piedmontfields]

My equine dentist published a free book on horsemanship that describes horse personalities and how to understand and be understood by them. It might be helpful to peruse (he works primarily without sedation and has to figure out how to communicate effectively with a horse very quickly upon meeting them). I have a melancholy mare and I need to explain *everything* to her up front very clearly...and she will then be very obedient and faithful.

You can read more here http://www.barnmice.com/notes/eBook%3A_ ... rsemanship

[silk]

Every time I take on a new horse for trimming, I expect it to act up, even if it is normally a saint. It has no reason to trust me yet, or understand that I will treat it kindly, and that what I do will make it feel better. The trust takes a few visits to build up, even if the previous person was not unkind, but especially so if the previous person did something that the horse did not like.

My ex-client (only because she moved to another location) told me the other day that the new trimmer (also my trainer/mentor) is good but not as kind as me. That was nice to hear about myself!

[PaulaO]

I have just now accepted (6 days later) that if Ariel needs Ace, Ariel needs Ace. In the meantime I will continue to work with her. Yesterday I held up her back legs and did mini stretches forward. She lived.