Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

pawsplus
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Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby pawsplus » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:19 am

My Connemara x pony, Rhys, has developed what are apparently seasonal allergies. First he was coughing. Not a lot, so vet said keep an eye on him. Then the coughing worsened, and he was breathing quickly. Vet came back and out him on an antihistamine (Hydroxyzine). Nothing changed. Vet added a bronchodialator (Ventipulmin). He will eat the Hydroxzine in soaked pellets, and for a few weeks, ate the Ventipulmin that way, but now he won't eat the pellets if the VP is in there, so now I have to syringe it into him. He is TERRIBLE about this--always has been--so this is a twice a day nightmare. He improved somewhat on the VP, in that he is not coughing now, but his breathing is still not normal.

So today vet decided to switch to prednisolone. Not crazy about this, as I don't like corticosteroids, but supposedly there is less risk of laminitis with prednisolone than with some others, and what else to do? The big issue is that the stuff tastes AWFUL. I know this because I tasted it. OMG. : :shock: So even if I mix it into molasses, it's going to taste nasty and he's going to get worse and worse about the syringing.

Does anyone have experience with allergies in horses? Vet said sometimes it's seasonal and sometimes it's all the time. I can't even wrap my mind around that. I can't even see being able to go out of town because my pet sitter can't do this, and he's only 11!!! I can't do this for 20 more years. I'm feeling really frustrated and am wondering what others' experience is.

Note that my horses are out 24/7, so he's not inside in a dusty stall or anything
Last edited by pawsplus on Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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orono
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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby orono » Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:29 am

Hopefully it is seasonal, and so you will only have to deal with the PITA treatments for a few weeks (or maybe a month or 2) per year. A mare I use to have suffered from seasonal allergies, but was good about eating the powdered antihistamine in a mash. We moved a year or 2 later and it did not happen again.

Is there anything that can be administered by injection? Are you comfortable giving them?

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby pawsplus » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:33 am

I'd be thrilled with a shot, although that wouldn't help in the past sitter dept. As I said, he eats the antihistamine in soaked pellets, but it seems to do nothing at all, so that doesn't help us much. I just worry because he coughed off and on for months, while the vet wasn't worried about it. So it seems that it is not going to be only seasonal. :-(

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby pawsplus » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:34 am

Oh, and the vet said there isn't an injectable version of prednisolone. ??

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby pawsplus » Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:13 pm

Has anyone used Tri-Hist? http://www.allivet.com/p-657-tri-hist-g ... gQodOnEFJQ

The Hyrdroxyzine doesn't really seem to help (any improvement is due to the Ventipulmin), so I don't really see the point of continuing, though vet wants me to. Tri-Hist is a completely different product--pseudoephedrine. Has anyone used it successfully for this? Looks like he might actually eat it, which would help--perhaps I could not use the pred at all if it worked!

I have an email out to the vet about it. Would appreciate any feedback folks have.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby Melody » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:32 pm

I have had several horses tested for allergies. The blood test and have done allergy shots. One is still on them and probably will be for life. He is a headshaker. Has really helped him a lot, more than any kind of supplement or meds. I did try trihist on several horses for coughs and allergies. Never did a thing for mine. This is the lab I use https://www.acttallergy.com/equine-owner-information/ Use to be BMSLabs but got bought out by these guys I think. You can get drops instead of shots but I think the drops are daily, shots are every 14 to 21 days. My guy has had to be retested several times as with some horses/people/dogs, allergies can change. He is 17 now and has been on this since he was 5. Not all has to be on them forever. If I had a real issue again with any more horses this would be what I would try first.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby pawsplus » Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:34 pm

OK. That sounds expensive, so probably not the first thing I'll try. But good to keep in mind if it proves necessary. I have ordered the SmartPak respiratory au naturele thing because it can't hurt, and the Tri-Hist. Will give them both a try and if that doesn't work, THEN try the pred.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby Chisamba » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:05 pm

Tri Hist has limited efficacy with my heaves horse, but we do use it, ventipulmin is the most effective, i mix it with apple sauce and then in his feed, and he eats it with no problem, sorry yours has decided not to, venti does not taste bad, i got some on my lip.

do you have to feed hay? or do you have enough pasture? I do ask for a specific reason.

PS a friend of mine did shots, her horse had an anaphylactic reaction, and died. ( as it happens, the same thing happened to my Doctors nephew. had seven shots, and all was well and on the eight he went into anaphylactic shock and died) i did not realize that it was always a danger with the treatment.

sorry that your poor horse is experiencing this

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby pawsplus » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:45 am

I have barely any grass. A little for May and June. Then it's gone. I feed hay in small mesh hay nets year-round. I really don't want to get into soaking hay--it would be impossible in with her, in any event.

Yikes re: the shots! Not ready to go there yet, that's for sure.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby pawsplus » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:48 am

I'll try applesauce. The biggest problem is that my pet sitter is not a horse person and I don't ask him to handle the horses. Feeding bucket feeds requires separating them. So normally he just puts out hay for them--I don't give bucket feeds every day anyway--until all this started, at least. But if he has to feed Rhys, they both have to be fed, and separated to do that. Destiny is fine, but Rhys can be unpredictable, and a dick. So that is a genuine concern for my 10 day trip this summer.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby orono » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:56 am

I would try soaking or at least sprinkling the net with water, might make a world of difference. Don't worry about your summer trip at this point, if the cough settles then it might not be needed long term. In fact if it does settle with watering the hay it would be a good test to go to dry hay for 10 days in a few months, and see if the cough comes back. Could just be an irritation that has flared up and once it settles there won't be any more treatment needed.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby Chisamba » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:00 am

See what works before you leave, try soaking or at least wetting to settle dust and mold. Have your system as functional as possible, find out what works now, then set it up for your summer trip

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby Chisamba » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:14 am

by the way i was going to suggest you get a hay steamer but if you will not even wet her hay, i do not suppose you will be prepared to steam it.

They hay steamer has made it possible for me to take the horse we have in our care off all medications, unless he has a flare which usually last for only a short time, when the pollens are very high, it is quite handy actually because the horses do well on the steamed hay.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby pawsplus » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:44 am

I'm just not ready to have to do that. I feed an enormous amount of hay, so soaking would be a huge amount of work when I have very little time in the AM. Wet nets are hard to eat from--on rainy days, more hay gets wasted. So I'd be risking neither of them getting enough to eat, and my wasting expensive hay.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby pawsplus » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:45 am

Just looked at hay steamers--$1500??? Sorry--can't afford that.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby Sue B » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:37 pm

I've had some good luck with Tri-Hist in the past with client's horses, but just like us, response is an individual thing. Some respond better to one allergy or another.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby orono » Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:30 pm

pawsplus wrote:Just looked at hay steamers--$1500??? Sorry--can't afford that.


I just use a watering can for horses who have a mild cough, doesn't have to be soaked but still helps to moisten/lessen dust. But Rhys's condition might be more chronic.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby pawsplus » Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:05 pm

I can dunk the nets in the creek. Just trying to avoid this as I do think it will reduce how much they are able to eat and that isn't a good idea. Not going to put out loose hay--then they just scarf it all up and have nothing to eat all day or all night!

I'll try the Tri-Hist (if the darn vet will ever call the company and confirm the script--it's taking him forever!) and the SmartBreathe. I'll see how he does on those and add the Ventipulmin back in if he needs it. I'm going to see if I can re-introduce the VP into his feed--don't know what caused him to go off it, as it doesn't taste terrible. It would be a big help if he would eat it in feed again. Then I can just try to figure out how much I need to give Destiny so they finish at the exact same time and maybe the petsitter can handle that. I hate to add on more stuff for him to do, but don't see any way around it.

Re: corticosteroids . . . the vet is really pushing the prednisolone, but I am very cautious with steroids, esp. long-term which seems to be what he's suggesting. Pred is less risky re: laminitis/Cushings than Dex, but there is still a risk, and it greatly suppresses the immune system. I consider corticosteroids to be a path of last resort.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby lorilu » Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:14 am

I believe I have heard that Tri Hist has a rep for creating non-sweaters.

I have a horse with heaves and I am feeding her this supplement from AniMed: HistAll-H. It reduces histamine levels, and it has tumeric in it. I pay about $20 at Seminole; here is a valley vet link: https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.htm ... 8b271e6029

I really like it - seems to really help her breathe. She also gets SmartBreathe from smartpak. But I did see improvement when I added the HistAll-H.

They also have another respiratory product, AniHist-H. It is similar(but more expensive). I buy the other one because I wanted the tumeric.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby greenholmeshandy » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:50 pm

Mine has hay fever starts may, worse june better by August /sept. I have used steroids in inhaler form as less risk of laminitis but she does tend to hit the nebuliser out of my hands, so I have given up on it! I have found global herbs pollen x helps a bit and keeping her in during the day on shavings with a haylage hay net.
formerly UDBB user known as Brychensmum

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby Quelah » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:39 am

I understand your fear of steroids, I've seen quite a few cases of steroid founder over the years. More from pred than dex, but pred is usually used longer term so…

Never had any luck with trihist, have a fair bit of success with hydrox BUT it's always been used in conjunction with (to knock down the allergic response) steroids, not on its own.

Ventipulmin is a godsend.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby Ike » Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:38 am

He doesn't happen to be around donkeys, does he? Sounds very similar to an issue I was having with my old arabian. We tried all sorts of things related to heaves and allergies as that's what the vet thought it was. I did some research and treated him for something else and he's fine now. No more coughing. No more heavy breathing.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby pawsplus » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:07 pm

He's not been around donkeys, but I am all the time (as a hoof trimmer). I asked the vet about that (whatever that disease is that is carried by donks that I cannot now remember!) and he said he didn't think so.

Things have settled down a bit. I have not given him the Tri-Hist, as I'm paranoid about the anhydrosis. After about 6 weeks of Ventipulmin, first full dose, then half dose, he has stopped the coughing (mostly) and I have withdrawn the meds. Keeping an eye on him.

Of course, now he has a runny swollen eye and might have uveitis. I feel so cursed. :(

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby Ike » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:16 am

Lung worms is what I figured out my guy got from the donkeys. May not hurt to try some appropriate wormer for lung worms if he hasn't had it in a while.

So frustrating.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby quinta » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:49 pm

I am so sorry, paws. This is almost exactly what I've been dealing with for the last several months. Occasional cough and occasional eye issues turned into full blown COPD over the winter, and bilateral uveitis this spring. It is exhausting.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby Saddlebum » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:51 am

Collect his urine and, depending on how much he weighs, give approx. 20cc in fat tissue once a week. He will experience relief within a day or two of the first set of shots. I give 10cc on each side of the neck.

Of course, had to get a diuretic from a vet to collect the urine.

Best and Good Luck!

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby Saddlebum » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:55 am

btw, urine is a by-product of the blood and is sterile when collected properly. Think urine sample at dr. office. It has too much of what our body needs within it. His body is producing oddles of anti-histimines and therefore, the shots work.

Urine Therapy.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby kande50 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:22 pm

pawsplus wrote:Just looked at hay steamers--$1500??? Sorry--can't afford that.


Someone I know made one. All it is is a box with a steamer, so she made the box and bought the steamer for less than $100.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby kande50 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:28 pm

Ike wrote:Lung worms is what I figured out my guy got from the donkeys. May not hurt to try some appropriate wormer for lung worms if he hasn't had it in a while.


Ivermectin gets lungworms, so I don't think it's considered a problem to keep horses with donkeys anymore, unless they're never dewormed with ivermectin.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby musical comedy » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:05 pm

I don't know if Paws is still following this, but would this be of any help:

http://www.haygain.us/products/flexineb/

Also, I'm looking at the steamers too, and the one for $850. Yes, expensive, but I am not able to make my own.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby Chisamba » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:44 pm

if the circumstances allow you to use one, my steamer has been a god send, really it has. Teddys problems have been minimized and his health greatly improved. anyone wondering if it is worth the money, it really is.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby musical comedy » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:11 pm

Chisamba wrote:if the circumstances allow you to use one, my steamer has been a god send, really it has. Teddys problems have been minimized and his health greatly improved. anyone wondering if it is worth the money, it really is.

Chisamba, which one do you have? Does it make the hay softer and/or more palatable?

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Chisamba
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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby Chisamba » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:44 pm

Yes it makes the hay softer, most of the hirses prefer it if offered, although one did not. Teddy doesnt have an option, its all he gets. After being on the steamed hay all year he accidentally got in the wrong pasture and ate normal hay and he came in coughing wheezing and unwell, so it really is the hay, in his case.

It smells more palatable to humans. It is definitely more digestible as Teddy is now sleek and.fat.

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Re: Frustrated--seasonal allergies and treatment

Postby Chisamba » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:28 pm

I have the haygain 600. If i had it to do again i would go with the larger size and do a whole bale at a time to feed everyone.


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