Toe crack, just started, cause? PICS added

[Saddlebum]

I trim my horse myself and have for 1.5 years. They appeared to be doing good until yesterday when I noticed a toe crack just starting out.

He's barefoot and has suffered medial flares and long toes for years because of poor trimming and also white fungus in his frogs which gave him deep central sulcus and a lot of pain apparently.

I've gotten rid of the fungus and the frogs are coming back. Also, the flares are disappearing when this small crack shows up right in the middle of the toe area.

What causes this? Right now, it might be a third to 1/2 inch long and not seperated hardly but enough to see it. The toes are still a bit long as I've been slow to bring them back. The heels were very under-run when I started and they are also coming back nicely.

[Flight]

My horse gets them if I leave the toes too long and it dries out. Not sure if that helps!

[kande50]

The toes are still a bit long as I've been slow to bring them back. The heels were very under-run when I started and they are also coming back nicely.

You probably answered your question yourself: toes too long so he's attempting to trim them himself.

Just roll the wall right where the crack is starting and that should take the pressure off until he grows a better hoof. Also check for hoof rot, as sometimes they've got some white line disease/seedy toe going on right where the toe starts to crack.

Posting pix might help too, as you might be able to take off a lot more than you are.

[Quelah]

Generally it's the trim. Sorry. A skilled farrier can generally make the corrections needed in one trim and not make a horse sore because they are after all, restoring the horse to where it should be. Skilled. There's no need to drag out the corrective process. Or as my farrier said when I FINALLY talked the owner of the mare I not so affectionately referred to as Princess Shitforfeet into letting me take her to my farrier, after reviewing X-rays and watching mare walk "God hates a coward, somebody hand me the blow torch!"

I'd show you the before and after X-rays but it's not my horse. Suffice to say that the mare had been lame for several years because she had so much sole built up in her toe that it was putting her on a negative angle. Anyway, it was a MAJOR change in the way she was trimmed, and she was not at all sore after. Quite the contrary actually.

Maybe have a good farrier out to check your trim, or haul to one.The really good farriers generally don't have time to do onesy twosey horses, but you can often haul to where they are and get your horse taken care of. Good luck!

[silk]

Generally it's the trim. Sorry. A skilled farrier can generally make the corrections needed in one trim and not make a horse sore because they are after all, restoring the horse to where it should be. Skilled. There's no need to drag out the corrective process.

Maybe have a good farrier out to check your trim, or haul to one.The really good farriers generally don't have time to do onesy twosey horses, but you can often haul to where they are and get your horse taken care of. Good luck!

I'm with Q on this one.

Cracks start "out of nowhere" because something's gotta give and something's been not-quite-right for a while. Not on perfectly good feet that have got a bit long. The hoof needs to be balanced correctly in order to function.

Photos would help, as everything's speculation until we can see what's truly going on.

[Saddlebum]

I took pics. Over the 16 years I've had this horse, I've had many farriers out and gave each one of them a year to two to make changes.

Here are some pics. They are deceptive imo beacause the sole at the toe is nearly even with the hoof wall as far as depth goes.

[Saddlebum]

more pics

[Saddlebum]

and more

[Quelah]

There's quite a lot going on there. Suggest you see if you can get him to a good farrier for some assistance.

[Flight]

Too long and flaring.
I do mine mostly, but every 4 to 6 months get a farrier in, and then I just try and keep it to what they have done. I've found a good one at the moment, that doesn't shorten them too much so they aren't footsore afterwards.

[kande50]

I'd tighten the hoof up at the toe (take more wall thickness off where it's gotten wider ). How much I'd take off would depend on the surfaces I was planning to ride him on, and how much self trimming he's doing. If he's on his way to doing enough self trimming I'd just tighten up the wall around the area of the crack to limit how much breaks off and continue riding him, but if he's not doing much self trimming then I'd back up the toe more and round the edges a lot more.

Even though the sole at the toe may be flush with the wall you can still back up the toe, because he'll build sole thickness and callous there as the hoof reshapes.

Sometimes they need all the cracking, chipping, flaring wall they can retain to stay sound enough to be able to function barefoot while the hoof is reshaping, but if you can't stand the ragged look you can always trim it off and use boots when you ride.

Interesting how the left front looks so much tighter than the right front in the bottom views, although that could have more to do with camera angles than reality.

[Saddlebum]

I don't ride him. Rode him 3x last year and once so far this year. The soil is loamy/sand, very soft, no self trimming at all. He has a toe first landing.

He plays really hard with my donkey EVERY morning if it's not too awfully hot. They have minimum 2 acres and 4 acres when I open the lower pasture to them. Looks like a war zone most days in the upper pasture. I will work on them Tues. and post more pics.

I have not taken pics since starting to work on him myself and am amazed how much I can see needs to be done. I have used all the farriers within 150 miles. Most for more than a year to see if they could get rid of the flares but not one of them mentioned the white fungus eating away at his frogs the entire time and none of them got rid of the flares or the crack in his quarter on the right. Nothing to do but give up and take over myself. Not in my original plans.

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.

[silk]

I can see why he'd be toe-first. Too much underslung heel, which is folding over the sole, and too much bar. If you can address that, it will go a long way to helping with the flaring, too.

[Quelah]

I have not taken pics since starting to work on him myself and am amazed how much I can see needs to be done.

So these pics are from a year and a half ago? Or am I misunderstanding?

Are you kind of near Lansing? I'm not familiar with Michigan but there are quite a few CJFs within what I'd consider a reasonable drive from there. If he's a retired horse I understand if you didn't want to go to that much bother, but I really think the trim is "off" enough that it would be helpful if someone could get it set up correctly for you and then you could maybe maintain it. I'm not trying to offend, but it looks like you're a little unclear about basic hoof shape, if you've been doing them for a year and a half at this point.

[Saddlebum]

Thanks Quelah, no offence taken. Pics are recent. Will trim and take more pics on Tues.

I should have taken pics when I started doing them as they were way way worse. He's really not retired as much as I don't want to ride him until his hooves are better. The frogs, especially the frog on his left, was pencil wide at the widest. Ugh, I don't want to go into it right now. Makes me cry.

More pics on Tues and I hope hope hope everyone will get real specific on what needs to be done/what everyone would do if it were them besides getting a farrier out. I mean, if you were trimming him yourself, what would you do specifically.

I'm up near Traverse City, MI.

[kande50]

More pics on Tues and I hope hope hope everyone will get real specific on what needs to be done/what everyone would do if it were them besides getting a farrier out. I mean, if you were trimming him yourself, what would you do specifically.

As long as he's not being ridden so doesn't need the extra hoof, I'd trim the wall right down to the sole, and I'd take it off at a 45 degree angle so that he's walking on his frog and sole. I'd also round off the edges of the wall, probably back to the inner wall, and possibly right back to the white line at the toe.

You can always take some off and then check to be sure he's not sore and then keep taking more off until you get him down to sole level, because that's how you'll get maximum stimulation to the structures that need to be stimulated to develop.

Are there some areas in his turnout where he has to walk across gravel, or at least firm ground?

[Saddlebum]

The only firm ground he has is in his run-in shed where there is gravel with a stall skin over it and he stands in there a good portion of the day to get away from the flies but doesn't move much. Otherwise, no. Even the trails I ride him on are soft footing. There is a paved road nearby and I can hand walk him on that on my days off - After I trim him, I'll start doing that.

[kande50]

The only firm ground he has is in his run-in shed where there is gravel with a stall skin over it and he stands in there a good portion of the day to get away from the flies but doesn't move much. Otherwise, no. Even the trails I ride him on are soft footing. There is a paved road nearby and I can hand walk him on that on my days off - After I trim him, I'll start doing that.

Any challenging footing helps, and it doesn't take all that much movement to stimulate the kinds of changes that will make the hoof healthier.

[martha sc]

Do you have Pete Ramey's book? VERY helpful. I got to spend the day with him watching and learning, and after he trimmed my regular ride, the difference in way of going was astounding.

[Saddlebum]

I did trim his fronts yesterday then my camera broke, go figure. Anyways, today I thought about my smartphone, never used the camera but I did get pics onto it. Plugged it into my puter via usb port.

Turned on Picasa 3 and Verizon downloaded stuff - too puter ignorant but I kept clicking on making changes to my computer icon and Picasa does show it as where to download pics from when I click on import pics BUT, no pics appear on the screen to select for importing.

I will try again later. Maybe someone here can help me get these onto Picasa????

[Grandiose]

His coronet band is not even, that tells you that the foot is out of balance. The front is being jammed up. And those heels are badly underslung, the flare is the last of his worries.

I understand many people are barefoot advocates. I absolutely believe some horses need shoes. We are generally dealing with domestic horses so genetics can play an ugly part in our horses health. So many horses are bred for things like color, or pretty, that soundness plays a very distant third, fourth, etc.

I have had, and currently have, a horse that has underslung heels. No amount of time or careful trimming benefits them as much as regular shoeing. With shoes I can keep him on a 6 week schedule, if just trimming it is on 2 weeks. Otherwise his crappy feet start spreading. This horse is sound without shoes, but moves so much better with shoes I don't leave him barefoot.

But this is all jmho!

[Saddlebum]

I got the transfer figured out but the pics were all too dark and too small, when enlarged, became too blurry.

Will try again on Sunday.

May buy another camera