Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

PaulaO
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Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby PaulaO » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:12 pm

When Miss A. was a school horse, the barn manager shod her (and all the other school horses). As of September 1, she was done by a new guy (we'll call him Scott cuz that's his name). Scott became her farrier because Scott is my trainer's farrier. My previous wonderful farrier is no longer taking new clients, even though I'm an old client with a new horse.

Scott insisted Miss A. be Aced because she pulled back from him when he dragged her out of her stall. He's an old fashioned farrier--horses must stand still like statues. I did not know he was like this. She lost a shoe two weeks after being shod. I text Scott, he takes 8 days to come out, doesn't let me know when he's coming, insists on Aceing her since I'm not there, and charges me 10 bucks for a new shoe. In the meantime I'm thinking "I need a new farrier." Saturday I watch Anthony shoe a horse, I talk to horse's owner, and book Anthony for Friday. Sunday I can see space between Miss A.'s hoof and the shoe (the other shoe) and pray "let this stay on for 6 days."

Oh no, she pulls it last night while I'm riding her. It's been 7 weeks, no word from first farrier about when he's coming back (I don't think my trainer told him I fired him).

Anyway, my question is: given the fact that it hasn't been muddy, she doesn't exactly overstride (but she does need her toes rolled), is losing 2 shoes in 7 weeks something that can be considered reasonable?

I'm not dissing Scott's work, I just didn't like his treatment of my horse.
Last edited by PaulaO on Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DJR
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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby DJR » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:32 pm

I wouldn't be happy about having a farrier show up without letting me know, or of tranquilizing my horse without my knowledge. Those two things, by themselves, would be a "not invited back" scenario.

My Friesian/Perch used to be hard on shoes. He never lost two in one cycle, but he lost a shoe every 2-3 cycles. Then I got my current farrier 6 years ago and the problem has largely been eliminated, with only a rare pulled shoe. But this horse does overreach and also likes to stand VERY close with his front feet, sometimes stepping on his own foot while just standing there (he's a goof!). So, him pulling his own shoes off wouldn't be surprising. But, this farrier, after having a couple of pulled shoes early on after he started doing his feet, has adjusted how he does this horse with super results.

My point being that with a brand new farrier working on my horse, I do allow a cycle or two or three for the farrier to adjust to the needs of the new (to him/her) horse. Within reason, of course!

But, I'm rather touchy about having anyone see my horse without my consent, so that would be a no-go for me by itself. And, unless the horse has major behavior issues with the farrier - and I'm not hearing that from your description of your new horse - I'm not at all a fan of chemically managing behavior, especially without my consent.
formerly known as "Deanna" on UDBB -- and prior to that, as "DJD".

PaulaO
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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby PaulaO » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:01 pm

P.S. Her feet are decent, not shelly or soft. Totally normal to my eye.

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby myleetlepony » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:08 pm

I'd be PO'd. My farrier takes it personally if a shoe comes off, even when it's super muddy, and is back out within 48hrs, no charge. I wouldn't have even given the first guy 6 days...that's asking for bruising or abscesses.

Give this Anthony guy a chance and move along if you need to...there's plenty in the area (lmk if you need some names).

Remember, you are now Miss A's advocate. Don't let anyone leave her with sore feet.

As far as meds, do you know why she pulled back in the first place? You're experienced enough to know if it's necessary to tranq or not. Go with your gut.

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby kande50 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:18 pm

The two week shoe could have been a free reset if the farrier offered that kind of guarantee, but IMO, the 7 week shoe wouldn't be because even when a farrier guarantees that his shoes will stay on it's almost never for more than 6 weeks.

I don't want my horses shod "tight" so that the shoes are less likely to get pulled, so would encourage a farrier, if I ever hired one, to shoe for good support rather than so the shoe would stay on longer.

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby PaulaO » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:49 pm

I don't expect an ironclad guarantee that a 7 week shoe would stay on. I'm questioning 2 shoes lost in the same cycle on a horse that isn't known for losing shoes.

She got shod by the new farrier September 1, which was the day my lease started. I have no problem being her advocate, which is why she is getting a new farrier. She pulled back because she was being roughly handled by a stranger and expected to stand like a statue. She will be be much better Friday because I will be there and the new farrier will be better with her. He's very patient. She will be on a strict 6 week cycle, in fact her next appointment is already set up.

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby myleetlepony » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:29 am

I suppose, given our weird wet/dry cycles lately, the clinches could have loosened more than usual. It's also possible first shoe was a fluke, second was that the cycle was a bit too long as in she grew a bit more foot than normal or farrier didn't trim her as close as she normally is. It's hard to say.

Hopefully the new farrier works out and has more patience with her.

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby capstone » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:47 am

2 different feet?

Cartier tends to pull shoes when he doesn't like the fit or balance. Always the same, RF, when it happens. Otherwise he keeps them on.

kande50
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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby kande50 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:59 am

[quote="PaulaO"]I don't expect an ironclad guarantee that a 7 week shoe would stay on. I'm questioning 2 shoes lost in the same cycle on a horse that isn't known for losing shoes.[quote]

I think that from a farrier's perspective it would be one shoe lost in a cycle, as the 7 week shoe would be considered out of cycle. He may have just been trying to fit the shoes so that she had more support, and if he'd continued to shoe her would have tightened them up once he knew that he couldn't do that with her?

The scheduling and handling problems would have been a deal breaker for me, too.

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby PaulaO » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:35 am

Truthfully, it is the handling issue that is the reason I'm no longer using him. I can see the point that the second lost shoe could be considered out of cycle. However, it is now 7 weeks and no sign of him. Whatever. Anthony comes tomorrow and we'll be on a good path.

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby PaulaO » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:14 pm

She stood good as gold for Anthony. She is barefoot now and fingers crossed she can stay barefoot through the winter. I hate shoes, even with pads, in the snow. She had a little bit of bruising on the shoeless sole, but Anthony wasn't concerned. He said for a TB she has good feet the walls are a bit thin, nothing bad though.

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby myleetlepony » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:28 am

Sounds like a better match! I highly recommend having Durasole on hand for barefoot TBs, especially with our weather :)

PaulaO
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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby PaulaO » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:46 pm

The old farrier showed up yesterday--7 weeks. My name had been scratched off his to-do list and Kim (trainer) knew I was switching. I will get Durasole. If she needs shoes she will get shoes but I hope she can be barefoot.

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby kande50 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:31 pm

You can always fit her out with hoof boots, and can even put ice calks in them so that you can ride her out all winter. What I like about the boots is that I can ride mine barefoot a lot more--and that I don't have to deal with farrier appointments.

PaulaO
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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby PaulaO » Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:26 pm

She had a few ouch strides today but worked out of it. The local stores don't have Durasole but I ordered a bottle. We shall see. She is going to be a trail pony tomorrow and pack people around outside. Nose to tail.

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby myleetlepony » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:36 pm

Yea, sorry, I don't think Durasole is carried locally, even at the farrier supply up in Burlington, WI. It was developed by a farrier in TX years ago and for a while, he only sold to farriers. It's getting more widespread now, though.

Just don't apply too often as that can cause the foot to retain old sole. It's purple and stains (I use either a cheap 1in paint brush or pour into an old shoe polish bottle with a sponge on top)...when the stain is gone from the foot is when I know to reapply, if necessary. The nice part is that unlike Keratex, you can apply when the sole is stii damp if you need to. It helps dry the tissue as opposed to sealing it.

This all assuming that you haven't used it before ;)

PaulaO
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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby PaulaO » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:24 pm

I saw Keratex at the feed store but refused to pay $47. I've never heard of Durasole, so thank you MLP. And for the user tips

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby myleetlepony » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:39 pm

I certainly like the price of Durasole MUCH better! Let us know how you like it!

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby Chisamba » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:49 am

i consider a shoeing cycle six weeks.
I have used both Keratex and Durasole, durasole has formaldehyde which is a controlled substance so its harder to get.
i do prefer barefoot if a horse can be barefoot comfortably. I especially prefer barefoot in winter. I think actual bare feet are safer than shoes, shoes with caulks etc on snow and ice.

however it takes patience to get a horse from shod to barefoot, it takes a period of time before the feed harden, up to three months in my experience, so having something you can use to protect the feet during that time is helpful. I have used old mac, cavallo, easy boots etc. if you are using a hoof boot, it is useful to have a rasp because slight chips, or uneven growth in the hoof makes it hard to put the boot on and you might have to rasp down a bit of something to get it one, between trimming.

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby Chisamba » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:50 am

ps: i would not under any circumstances use a farrier who sedated my horse, or a horse in my care. if sedation is needed i give it myself or have a vet give it.

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby kande50 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:45 pm

myleetlepony wrote:Yea, sorry, I don't think Durasole is carried locally, even at the farrier supply up in Burlington, WI. It was developed by a farrier in TX years ago and for a while, he only sold to farriers. It's getting more widespread now, though.


Tom Stovall. He used to post on rec.eq and horseshoes.com a few years ago. I learned a lot about shoes and shoeing from him.

PaulaO
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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby PaulaO » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:38 pm

Tom Stovall! I remember him from rec.eq, and when I did a search on Durasole, his name popped up. Whatever I saw didn't say he developed it. I learned a lot from him too, and I can use the product with confidence now.

PaulaO
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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby PaulaO » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:39 pm

Chisamba wrote:ps: i would not under any circumstances use a farrier who sedated my horse, or a horse in my care. if sedation is needed i give it myself or have a vet give it.


Chi, the barn manager sedated her. Sorry if I gave the impression the farrier did.

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Re: Two shoes lost in one shoeing cycle

Postby myleetlepony » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:34 pm

Haha! Yes, it was Tom...I believe he sold Durasole off right around the time horseshoes.com imploded. I miss that board.


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