Would you be ok with this?

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PhoenixRising
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Would you be ok with this?

Postby PhoenixRising » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:30 pm

She was just trimmed last week. I don't like how her feet look with the new farrier trimming her. How would you feel if this was your horse? I'm trying to decide how big of a deal I want to make of it with the barn owners and the farrier. She is on uneven ground and her feet are muddy in a couple, but I feel the issues are visible even so.
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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby myleetlepony » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:29 pm

There is certainly some flaring left there, but without seeing the bottom of the foot, it's hard to say how much could be corrected with one appointment.

Did the farrier say he was trying to fix anything? If so, did he mention it may take a few cycles or that she needs to be on a shorter schedule?

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby PhoenixRising » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:27 am

I should have waited to post until I had more time to explain.
I usually pay a lump sum for board, and it includes my farrier bill. Awhile ago, I guess the girl who was trimming my horse couldn't do it anymore so they started using their other farrier on my horse and never informed me. I'm only upset about this, because I honestly have never liked the work this farrier does and I felt like they should have told me. I dont want to raise too much of a fuss about that since they honestly really truly do take amazing care of my horse.
I have only met the farrier once, but I am thinking I need to call him and ask if I can be there the next time he does her. But I'd like some more expertise on how to explain to him why I'm unhappy in ways that don't offend him. Her feet have gradually gotten worse since he has been trimming her, and honestly I'm really unhappy. I took the muddy pictures today, when I fed the pasture horses so I didn't have a hoof pick on me to get better pictures of her hoof picked out, but I could try and do that tomorrow.
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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby kande50 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:09 am

They look fine to me. If she doesn't need the extra hoof I'd probably trim them shorter, although I can't really tell all that much about the trim without bottom and side views.

It doesn't look like the pix were taken at the same time, as the first pic looks like a shorter hoof to me, and the second two look like the hooves are longer--although that could be entirely due to camera angles.
Last edited by kande50 on Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby silk » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:47 am

What do you think the issues are? IE what about those feet displeases you/makes you unhappy?

Hard to say whether you are feeling the right things if we don't know what you think... All you've said is the feet have got worse, and you don't like the way they look - not the specific things you're concerned about.

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby PhoenixRising » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:22 pm

The first picture was taken about a week prior to the second two.
Her heels are flaring out is my biggest complaint. But I'm honestly do not have a super great hoof knowledge. I know they shouldn't be flared out like that, but is that the only issue you guys can see?
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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby StraightForward » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:51 pm

So the first pic is right after a trim? My mare has similar, wide feet and came to me last year with significant flares. I've been working since then to get the flares under control, and have them nearly where I want them now.

I wouldn't want him taking off any more toe. Instead, I would be relieving the flares on the corners. Better photos will help, but her growth lines are pretty prominent, and should provide a good guide to help with trimming (the growth line that's on the ground at the toe shouldn't be 1" off the ground at the back). Usually there will be some "jamming" or waviness of the coronet band where additional trimming is needed. As the jamming is relieved, the coronet band will get relief and the hairline will become straight.

When you get new photos, take them from ground level from the front, back and sides, solar view, and one with the foot up, looking down from the heel to show whether the heels are balanced, too tall, etc. It would be good to get these for the hinds too. Most horses I see are too high in the heels in front, and have long toes in back with underrun heels. Since she's young, it's a good time to correct this and get her on a good path with her feet.
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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby kande50 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:32 am

The other trick I learned for getting better hoof photos is to take high resolution pix from further way and then crop them, as that helps minimize any distortion of the hoof due to camera angle.

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby angela9823 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:22 pm

Agreed with others. Very difficult to make a decision without other information. The trimmer may realize this is not great right now but only wants to take enough off to promote healthy growth without making the horse lame. What I see is that there are past issues that will take time to repair. The flaring is just an effect from some/several cause/s. Could be diet, environment, trim etc changes. From the outside, this looks like something that will take a few months to get right but I'd suspect this horse could have nice feet (just looking at outside only!!) with proper changes. Try to address that flare too early and you could have a very lame horse depending on the underside conditions. Question what you or barn may be doing to contribute to this though - diet, environment (is it wet a lot right now?), how often being trimmed etc. This really may have nothing to do with your current farrier. With those rings on the hoof, I'd say this is not a new situation contributing.

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby Tarlo Farm » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:34 pm

Yes, need to see the soles. However, to me, it looks like too much side flare and a little short in the toes. Need photos from bottom and a side shot to see the fetlock/hoof angle.

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby PhoenixRising » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:23 am

I'm feeling pretty terrible that I haven't pursued this farther yet, but I've had a ton on my plate. Here are sole pictures I took today of a front and back foot. I'm wanting to talk with the farrier soon about how I'd like things done. I don't know if her toe is really short, I think it just looks that way because of the flare on the sides?
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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby angela9823 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:16 pm

How long was the sole shot after trimming? This horse has got some GREAT feet. Looks a little over grown but really great feet. So I think your toe looks short to others because the heel is overgrown and forward. I'd bring that down and back further as well as trimming up frogs and bars a little. Work on the flare but I wouldn't over address it right now. Bringing the heel back in place will resolve the flare more than anything else. There really isn't much here to "correct" just get things in their place and let a healthy environment and diet do the rest.

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby myleetlepony » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:10 am

I think the toe looks fine in the second shot, but I was going to say exactly what angela did about the heels; they are overgrown and have traveled forward. The bars are curved because they are being jammed from behind by the heel growth.

Otherwise, it looks like that second photo is after the trim? I'd be pretty happy with that and ask to address the heels. That may also address the flaring on the sides.

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby PhoenixRising » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:45 pm

myleetlepony wrote:
Otherwise, it looks like that second photo is after the trim? I'd be pretty happy with that and ask to address the heels. That may also address the flaring on the sides.


The photos are front foot and back foot.
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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby myleetlepony » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:44 pm

Ah, I see...The photos descriptions didn't show on the desktop but they do now on my phone.

The back foot has the same problem, just more extreme. The issue does need to be addressed because eventually, it will affect joint alignment, which leads to abnormal stress, which leads to arthritis and soft tissue problems.

Really, it's the heels that are the issue...They've been allowed to travel forward and are jamming from behind. It is something that won't be taken care of in one or two cycles, but it should be addressed little by little each trim. How long is it between each appointment?

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby PhoenixRising » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:37 pm

She's on a 6 week schedule.
I spoke with the farrier and I'm really not happy with his replies. I'm really feeling cornered here and unsure how to handle the situation. The BO wants me to not upset the farrier, but I don't feel he listened to my concerns. Another boarder had the same issue with him that was never resolved, resulting in her changing farriers. She said it didn't matter what she told him, he did her horse how he wanted and never changed. I don't have the luxury of changing farriers if it comes to that, since I don't have a truck and trailer to haul her somewhere else for trims, which is what this boarder does.
I think the best approach at this point is to somehow come up with the exact way to tell him what I want done and insist she be trimmed that way. The issue for me is while I know they aren't right, I don't know exactly how to convey what I want from him and HOW he should be doing it instead.
I saw her feet 2 days after a "trim" and I honestly think they barely look any different than they did before the trim. I snapped a couple pics for your viewing.
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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby kande50 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:07 pm

Get her out and get her moving on abrasive ground and she'll take care of whatever the farrier doesn't. If I'm remembering right she's not yet under saddle (?), but leading or ponying her out will help.

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby myleetlepony » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:42 pm

He needs to bring the heels back and shorten the toe. Has she always been on a 6 week schedule? Unfortunately this may need to be resolved through a shortened trim cycle or possibly shoeing. Any way you can have the other boarder that trailers out for the farrier take your horse, too?

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby Larbear » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:01 pm

The pics in the March 17th post, those are 2 days after a trim? I would say not only come up with the exact way to tell him what you want done and insist she be trimmed that way but also be there when he's trimming. Those pics, if they really 2 days after he trimmed her, they don't even look like he touched them at all.

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby orono » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:01 am

I am not a trimming expert, and to be honest I've had more trouble with farriers who trim too aggressively and prefer those who do a little less. But the most important thing to me is how they move, how they walk on rough footing etc..

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby heronponie » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:15 am

Please don't continue to pay someone to treat you badly.

Your farrier should not dismiss your concerns or act like you, his paying customer, are a nuisance for asking questions. If he disagrees with what you're asking for, he should be able to explain why he does, and how his method will achieve XYZ Result instead. You don't need to be an expert. If he can't or won't break it down into terms you can understand, that's a major red flag.

When you hire a farrier, you're not paying for the amount of hoof that ends up on the floor after the trim. You're paying for his expertise, experience, and good judgement. This person should be a resource of information for you, not someone you can't contact without fear of offending him.

This is your horse, your money, and 100% your problem to deal with down the road if he screws her up. You hold more of the cards here than you're seeing: the farrier works for you, the barn manager works for you. Don't let them make you feel cornered or like you don't have options!

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby angela9823 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:22 am

Two days after a trim? You are right, horse barely looks touched. Because he's not addressing the heel issues, everything is moving forward and out from its place. The walls are flaring more, the bar is cracking, it appears the horse is starting to over wear the toe (and farrier addresses that area most). I think time to get a new farrier.

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby StraightForward » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:56 pm

I'd get a rasp and a knife and start working on the bars and heels myself. If there's a hoof jack around the barn that you can borrow, that will make it easier. The nice thing is, you can just do a tiny bit at a time, so you won't get her too far off balance unknowingly. It takes some studying, but it's worth it. I got started trimming by just planning to tweak the trim after a farrier who was similar, and was good friends with the BO, and not about to change his ways. Now I do it all myself and it's so much better being in control of my horses' feet.
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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby kande50 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:16 pm

I've always felt that as long as mine were barefoot they'd be fine with a less than perfect trim, because if they were on soft ground the high spots would just sink in, and if they were on harder ground then they'd take the high spots down to where they wanted them.

And as it turns out, that's pretty much what happens, because the bars and walls just sink into soft footing while the sole (which we now use as a guide for how much wall to remove) determines how far the walls sink in.

So now I'm much more inclined toward more movement rather than more trimming, as taking hoof off isn't what develops a stronger hoof because it too often interferes with development rather than enhancing it.

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Re: Would you be ok with this?

Postby martha sc » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:11 am

That looks more like a month after a poor job. Learn how to do your own, it won't be worse than this if you only take of what you KNOW needs to go.,.


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