Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Tsavo
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Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby Tsavo » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:44 am

We pulled a shoe on the hind to let an abscess drain and the vet said that pulling the shoes for several weeks would encourage the heels to grow. So we pulled the other hind shoe and I rested my horse for 2 weeks and then started lunging to see what we had. Other than some mild concern about waking over the gravel between the barn and the stall, he moves the same in terms of overstep and willing to engage and work over the back when on grass or in the arena. There is no mincing. I ride him today for the first time in about 3 weeks and he feels the same as when he had hind shoes. I am hoping we don't need then any more but am monitoring for gluteal pain.

I also had a question about boots. If there is no heel (under run) then will any boot even stay on?

Thanks.

kande50
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Re: Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby kande50 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:30 pm

Tsavo wrote:I also had a question about boots. If there is no heel (under run) then will any boot even stay on?


Shouldn't make much difference, as the way the boot fits the perimeter of the hoof seems to be the more relevant issue when it comes to keeping boots on.

Tsavo
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Re: Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby Tsavo » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:55 pm

Okay thanks. Does that apply to the hinds also? Do people boot hind feet?

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Re: Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby Kyra's Mom » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:03 am

I prefer to boot all 4 on my mare. She does a little toe dragging due to weak-ish stifles and it protects her feet a bit and cuts down on hoof wear at the toe. Also kind of the thought that either none or all for better balance for the horse. Plenty of people do just the fronts but I also use them for protection from rocks (yep in the arena :P ) and the backs need protection just as much as the front as far as I am concerned.

I use Renegade boots and have had no problem with her keeping them on. She does do a bit of a twist in the hock as she walk so she does eventually (over months) break the cables.The cables are replaceable as long as the boot shell is in good shape. The others I have tried (Cavallo, several types of Easyboots) do tend to twist or just flat don't fit her hoof shape so Renegades it is.

Does your horse really need to grow heel or are his heels underun and have grown forward (in which case he has lots, it just isn't in the right place)?

Susan
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Tsavo
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Re: Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby Tsavo » Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:52 pm

Thanks. The tubules are correctly oriented now but are not growing hardly. I think the vet thinks they need stimulation. Pete Ramey mentions this also. Has anyone seen heel grow faster after pulling shoes?

kande50
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Re: Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby kande50 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:15 pm

Tsavo wrote:Thanks. The tubules are correctly oriented now but are not growing hardly. I think the vet thinks they need stimulation. Pete Ramey mentions this also. Has anyone seen heel grow faster after pulling shoes?


That's not something that's easy to eyeball, and I don't know of any studies that have actually measured relative heel growth under both conditions. But the advantage to pulling the shoes isn't so that the hoof will grow faster, but so that the hoof will strengthen and reshape.

So I think what you'll see as the hoof develops is that the sole cups more, which not only brings the toes back more but reshapes and realigns the heels.

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Re: Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby angela9823 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:20 pm

On boots, if you horse tends to underrun, do go with a boot like Renegades. They fit better that type of hoof.

On whether the heel will grow, if you have a healthy heel bulb and frog, you don't need a lot of heel wall. When someone discusses heels growing, these are the terms I think in. If you try to grow heels just in terms of heel walls, you are going to underrun an already underrun hoof more. So think in terms of what will get the overall heel to be healthier. The digital cushion and frog get the stimulation they need to plump up. The plumper those are, the shorter the hoof wall itself will be. When you have underrun heels, a lot of time the entire heel hasn't gotten the right amount of stimulation but often times they can be a culprit of too long toes, OR something is going on in your front feet to make the horse camp under in the hinds which can cause too much incorrect stimulation and therefore cause atrophy of the entire heel.

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Re: Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby Tsavo » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:02 pm

Thanks. I thought the point was to grow heel wall but I am just assuming that. Don't they have to grow heel wall if they are ever to be able to walk over non-soft ground in comfort?

My horse never stands camped under. He is usually standing correctly or very occasionally since pulling the shoes, camped out a bit. He doesn't do it while turned out but occasionally will stand camped out on the crossties for some reason. I assume his heels are sore getting used to the no-shoe scenario.

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Re: Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby Tsavo » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:04 pm

Well it is almost a month since the RH shoe was pulled and about 3 weeks since the left was pulled. I lunged him for several days in the arena and on grass and I thought he was moving the same as with shoes. Of course I was required to doubt my sanity. I have now have had two trainers who I work with agree he is moving comfortably and correctly on the hinds in the arena. He will take weight on the hinds as usual and move through his body and overstep and such. He lands flat (not toe first) at walk at least. I can't really see what is happening at trot/canter.

When I leave the arena he has slight concerns so I am taking that slowly.

He doesn't mind walking over the gravel between the pasture and the barn now. He was putting his ears back at first. He still tried to walk on grass versus gravel if he has the choice.

When can I expect his feet to be tough enough to have no concern when outside the arena?

kande50
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Re: Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby kande50 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:52 am

Tsavo wrote:
When can I expect his feet to be tough enough to have no concern when outside the arena?


I was at a clinic last year where the clinician pulled the shoes (and full pads) off a TB who had been shod for years. I've never seen such nice looking hooves on a horse who had been wearing shoes and full pads before. The walls were straight, soles cupped, he had good frog development, and he walked off sound on the gravel driveway. I ran into his owner a few months later and she said he'd never had any problems, although the reason she had his shoes pulled was because she wasn't riding him anymore, but he had remained sound on the gravel driveway.

OTOH, I think it took some of mine a couple of years before they developed a good bare hoof, although they were sound enough to ride on soft ground and in boots right away. But then some of them had been in shoes for decades by the time I decided to switch to barefoot and boots.

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Re: Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby Srhorselady » Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:13 am

I think it's an individual horse thing. Conformation ally some horses have flatter feet and or thinner soles. My vet recently xrayed feet on two different horses for different reasons and was thrilled that the laminitic mare had 1.5 and 1.7cm of sole depth. The other horse is not laminitic and had even more sole depth. However, the latter has occasionally been ouchy on the driveway for a day or two after trimming. There are products you can use to help toughen soles (Venice Turpentine) but I would use sparingly. I have tried barefoot or part barefoot on most of my horses. Whether or not it has worked well has depended a lot on environmental and weather conditions as well as the individual hoof quality (genetic). Nutrition of course is major. This last summer conditions were so bad that I had to go back to shoeing the rears on two horses who had been barefoot. One had been barefoot for almost two years, but our very hot summer coupled with intermittent monsoon rain caused his white line to start to separate. So now he is shod and has front pads on his feet. The other I had just pulled his rears and after three shoeing cycles when he continued to chip and start cracks went back to shoes. Our ground can be pretty rocky and i I was trail riding him. I may try again when conditions are different. Currently my herd is one totally barefoot, one barefoot behind, and three shod all around. All of the last three I have tried barefoot at least behind. One just doesn't grow good enough hoof (29 year old OTTT). Good luck with yours!

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Re: Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby redsoxluvr » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:43 am

We pulled the front shoes on my AQHA gelding about three weeks ago. He was already barefoot behind.

My guy is a typical AQHA hunter type, with lots of TB blood. We have battled a severe case of thrush for an entire year with this poor guy.
He has a slight club foot on the left and it compounded our issues with trying to clear up the thrush. After two shoeings with
his foot packed with copper sulfate, it finally cleared up. Farrier felt that his frog needed to be in contact with the ground for
his foot to function as it needed to, so we pulled the shoes. He was footsore for a day or two, then came very sound.
He blew an abscess about a week in, but it resolved quickly. He now looks better than he ever has and his feet actually
appear to be functioning as nature intended. We have not booted him as yet, as he is working well without them.

We'll put shoes on if need be, but so far no need.

Tsavo
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Re: Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby Tsavo » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:16 pm

Thanks for the further responses.

He hind feet look so good. Cupped and growing heel wall which at this point needs rasping because it is longer than the frog depth.

I wish I had pulled the shoes earlier but I am not sure that was in the cards earlier.

Tsavo
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Re: Pulling shoes to grow heel on the hinds

Postby Tsavo » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:56 pm

Here we are some 8 months after pulling the hind shoes and I would say my horses feet have fully adapted to the terrain (gravel, stones, roots, etc.). He was exposed to these surfaces almost every day but for varying lengths of time. I was wondering about this.


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