EOTRH

highoctane
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EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:29 am

I guess this will be my diary of sorts, logging my horse's "journey" with EOTRH (Equine Odontoclastic Tooth Resorption and Hypercementosis).

Hi-Oc (JC "High Octane") is my soon-to-be 24yo OTTB gelding, and the origin of my username. I've owned him since just before he turned 8...so 16 years. Time flies. He was first diagnosed with EOTRH 5 years ago, by my vet, Dr. John Zaccardi of Mount Vernon Veterinary Hospital. What we thought was a hole in his gum caused by a piece of hay, ended up being a fistula - a hallmark of EOTRH. Fistulas are draining tracts, and an outward sign that an infection is brewing in the gums.

In EOTRH, the body attacks the tooth root, and "resorbs" it. It can also try to remedy this by forming excess cementum (the hypercementosis part). Usually, horses go either way - the resorption lane or the hypercementosis lane, and the disease starts on the "outside" incisors and works its way towards the middle ones. The resorption causes more pain, and is readily apparent on radiographs. The hypercementosis is more obvious, causing large growths on the tooths at the gum line. This doesn't seem to bother the horse. I was informed that Hi-Oc seemed to have the latter, and to only monitor him for signs of pain. He didn't start to show any until December 2016.

In the photos below (dated 2/21/16), you can see the fistula above tooth #201...it's the red dot.

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You can clearly see the hypercementosis around tooth #202...and if you look where the piece of grass is pointing, the red, mottled look of an angry gum.
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Last edited by highoctane on Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:36 am

This is 7 months later on 9/25/16. Note the more defined fistula, and the progression of the the hypercementosis around #202. If you look closely, you can see the ridge in the gum above what would be tooth #102 (other side).
Image

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:43 am

These are from this past Sunday, January 29th, 2017. They're blurry because he was wholly uncooperative, and really didn't want me messing with his face. Note the marked progression of the hypercementosis - in just 4 months.
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And although you can't see it in these pics, the upper gum is quite irritated looking. He has a total of 4 fistulas that I can count (in the 1 second he allows me to look). My poor guy.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:49 am

Here are the radiographs. They are not high quality - or centered - because even double sedated, he was having none of it, and kept jerking away. I suspect his pain tolerance has met his limit. The teeth are supposed to be clearly defined, and with nice, white, bone structure. These look like gauze. The black gaps are pockets of infection. Basically, the tooth roots are gone...the vet couldn't believe these were still in his mouth, and not even loose.
Image
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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:51 am

Image
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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:06 am

So, we're scheduled for the extractions on Tuesday, Feb 21st. I'll drop him off Monday, and pick him up on Wednesday...as long as there's no complications. We're hoping that it can be done standing sedated, and not general. While every surgery has its risk, general anesthesia on a geriatric horse is very tricky. I'm no fool, and I know the risks involved...but I simply cannot have my boy be in this amount of pain any longer. Horses usually do quite well without incisors, and it'll be interesting if/how his demeanor changes.

It's late, and I've been battling with photobucket to get these images loaded. If anyone has any questions, post away!

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Dapple Field » Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:57 am

Are molars affected in the disease or just incisors? Poor guy, it looks painful.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Chisamba » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:49 pm

We had a horse with hypercementosis, ( EOTRH) and before he started to show signs of the disease in his teeth he would slap his mouth against his chest. As if he was trying to bump something off his mouth. On a routine vet check to establish cause the vet noticed hypercementosis buildup on his gum line, and diagnosed EOTRH. It was the first time we heard of it, and he had a loose tooth. It was not as far advanced as your horse, but the tooth was quite loose.

We took him to have his tooth removed, and after lots of research, begged the vet to remove all the incisors. The vet refused, saying his other teeth were still in too good a condition. The horse continued to have teeth loosen, and have to remove them one at a time. ( despite contacting several veterinary hospitals in the area trying to get it all done at once). The horse would become lethargic, and obviously in pain as the tooth problem progressed and removing the tooth resulted always in a hugely improved quality of life for the horse.

Anyway, the horse was not mine, but one belonging to a client in my care, and she was, ( imho) not pushy enough about insisting on removing all the affected teeth simultaneously.

I believe your horse will have huge improved quality of life once you have taken those painful teeth out. I hope he manages the surgery very well.

I went from never having heard about this condition, to hearing about it quite often.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Josette » Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:19 pm

My elderly TB (I lost him age 24) was dx with this condition at age 18 by my equine dentist (retired but teaches at New Bolton). This can be a very painful condition as it progresses. He advised surgery for removal of his upper and lower incisors at age 20. There were no complications with his mouth recovery. He was eating hay quickly post-op and was able to eat his senior pelleted feed because he had his molars. I did daily mouth wash for about a week during recovery. He was unable to really eat grass later but he attempted it. He was much more comfortable after this dental extraction.

He did mildly founder post surgery as he was pre-cushings. However, he recovered quickly and was started on Pergolide with special diet.

Many years ago, I had an elderly pony who was missing several molars and he had to have a few remaining molars extracted. (Same equine dentist did his surgery too.) I had to feed him soaked hay cubes, beet pulp and pellets and he could not grind his food. I lost him in mid-30s.

(SENT YOU PM)

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:22 am

Dapple Field wrote:Are molars affected in the disease or just incisors? Poor guy, it looks painful.

Not often, no. It generally shows up in the outer incisors, works its way midline, then starts its way back...so sometimes it affects canines (we're suspicious of his lower pair). My research says that only in a few cases has it started in on the first molars - after it's obliterated the incisors and canines, of course. What's odd to me is that extraction only stops the disease on that tooth - it still can end up affecting *all* the incisors and canines that are left intact. In essence, there is no cure for the disease, only a cure for the pain (extractions).

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:40 am

Here's updated pics from today, 2/5/17:
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There are 2 new fistulas on his right side (I was actually trying to get a pic of them, but he's uncooperative). BO tells me he's been very snugly and affectionate lately - not normal for him lol. It *will* be interesting to see how/if his personality changes...if he'll still be a grumpy old man, or revert to being a snarky 10yo? (God help us if he goes back that far...did I mention how much a hellion he was??)

T-15 days until surgery.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Tuffytown » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:16 pm

Just as long as he does't try to jump arena walls again.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:30 pm

Tuffytown wrote:Just as long as he does't try to jump arena walls again.


Right? Or fences. Or start up rearing again. :roll:

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Re: EOTRH

Postby musical comedy » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:03 pm

My guy has this too, the hypercementosis. I have chosen not to do the extractions just yet. I don't sense he is in any pain. I REALLY did not like the vet/dentist that diagnosed this.

I won't bore you guys with my horse's xrays nor go into my horse's long story. The short story is that my long time vet (that is also a horseman) took a look at his teeth and found that this vet/dentist did not even do an adequate job of floating. Actually, when she was here, she was more interested in taking the xrays ($$$) and then doing the surgery ($$$) which she recommended. My vet came and floated them, which is not something he usually does. He did notice that one of the molars was started to get loose and might have to be pulled at some point. Fortunately it was one on the end (I forget what he said) that posed less of a problem. He did not recommend extraction.

I know every says they eat well without incisors and even canines, but I'd rather not extract unless absolutely necessary.

My horse is quite stoic so I think he might be ok with standing sedation. Still that's a lot of teeth to pull. Very scary to me.

I just wonder how many horses suffered (or are currently suffering) because people don't know about this disease. I didn't, until my previous equine dentist told me about it.

Josette, if you are reading this, the dentist I don't recommend is in your area, Amelie McAndrews. She took over Dr. Foster's practice when he retired. (Garden State Equine.com).

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:31 pm

musical comedy wrote:My guy has this too, the hypercementosis. I have chosen not to do the extractions just yet. I don't sense he is in any pain. I REALLY did not like the vet/dentist that diagnosed this.

I won't bore you guys with my horse's xrays nor go into my horse's long story. The short story is that my long time vet (that is also a horseman) took a look at his teeth and found that this vet/dentist did not even do an adequate job of floating. Actually, when she was here, she was more interested in taking the xrays ($$$) and then doing the surgery ($$$) which she recommended. My vet came and floated them, which is not something he usually does. He did notice that one of the molars was started to get loose and might have to be pulled at some point. Fortunately it was one on the end (I forget what he said) that posed less of a problem. He did not recommend extraction.

I know every says they eat well without incisors and even canines, but I'd rather not extract unless absolutely necessary.

My horse is quite stoic so I think he might be ok with standing sedation. Still that's a lot of teeth to pull. Very scary to me.

I just wonder how many horses suffered (or are currently suffering) because people don't know about this disease. I didn't, until my previous equine dentist told me about it.

Josette, if you are reading this, the dentist I don't recommend is in your area, Amelie McAndrews. She took over Dr. Foster's practice when he retired. (Garden State Equine.com).


Good vets are sometimes hard to find :(. My regular vet never pushed radiographs...actually told me when he was diagnosed that "something else will kill him long before this does". I sure hope it's not this upcoming surgery. But yes - since they chew with their molars, eating/digesting isn't a problem...and they learn to graze using their lips. Hi-Oc is VERY food-motivated - he has to wear a muzzle in the summertime - so I'm sure he'll figure it out very quickly. :-)

My boy isn't stoic - more a Princess and the Pea type - so I stood by for 5 years waiting for him to show signs of pain, thinking that if he WAS in pain, he would surely show it. Either I missed the signs, or he's just put up with it. Maybe it's just an undercurrent. Either way, I really hope the extractions resolve it.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Josette » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:37 pm

MC - I totally understand where you are coming from. Each horse is different and if they are comfortable and eating I agree and see no point in putting them through this procedure. I waited 2 years and when my guy finally refused to eat with very inflamed mouth and fistulas that look ulcerated - I committed. It was a VERY difficult decision for me. I really tried everything to avoid it including twice daily mouth washes with no relief. We know our horses best and must mke these choices for their QOL. I do know the vets you mentioned and cried when Dr Foster retired. I knew him for many years. I am VERY protective and selective over who works on my animals. I do not make any medical decisions lightly without alot of research.

Highoctane - I wish your guy an easy speedy recovery to ease his discomfort. At least today we have more feed options for our horses with soaking cubed hay and making pelleted mush.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby VBOpie » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:46 pm

HighOctane, There is another thread about EOTRH on the board. Don't know if you've seen it for info on some other experiences. I have a 20 yr. old Tb with EOTRH. He seems to be going the hypercementosis route. We are taking the remove the tooth as it becomes involved approached. He doesn't seem to be uncomfortable in any way. He was diagnosed about 18 months ago, and he's lost 3 teeth in that time - with another one currently on the watch list.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Josette » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:55 am

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/35688/ ... know-eotrh

Interesting article which mentions older horses with Cushings and Metabolic syndrome are 50% at risk for developing this problem. My TB was in that statistic.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Wicky » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:32 pm

My 15 year old Luso was just diagnosed with this. The vet has me brushing his teeth, which will not help with the hypercementosis but will help with periodontal disease associated with it. Seems to tickle him, so he tolerates the brushing (with Sensodyne or a toothpast used in dogs that tastes like banana).

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:51 pm

Josette wrote:http://www.thehorse.com/articles/35688/getting-to-know-eotrh

Interesting article which mentions older horses with Cushings and Metabolic syndrome are 50% at risk for developing this problem. My TB was in that statistic.


Excellent article, thank you! My horse, although an easy keeper in his younger days, hasn't been suspected of having Cushings, although I *do* suspect that his immune system is "low"...he's had several bouts of severe scratches in recent years that came on rather suddenly. I have to keep him on SmartImmune pellets or it flares up again within a week. I also slather his rear pasterns with a homemade concoction that - knock on wood - works wonders: zinc oxide cream, Vitamin A&D cream, anti-fungal cream, antibacterial cream, and a dose of chlorhexadine for good measure.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Josette » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:21 am

EOTRH discussed here with surgery details.

http://www.thehorse.com/ask-the-vet/387 ... 02-13-2017

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:55 pm

Vet called this morning to confirm his appointment (drop off Monday, surgery Tuesday). My stomach is in knots already. I worry that I'm doing the right thing (radiographs don't lie, and 3 vets have confirmed the need for extraction, but still...), that he'll be in so much pain, that he won't survive the surgery :,(. Jingles appreciated!!

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Josette » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:38 pm

Sending your guy JINGLES for an easy procedure and speedy post-op recovery.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Canyon » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:36 pm

Sending jingles for a great outcome from the surgery and peace of mind for you, highoctane

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:27 am

Went out today to make sure everything's in order...even put on his shipping attire and walked him around a bit. He's definitely feeling his meds, snorting and acting like he's 10 lol. No problem lifting his lip this time. These will be the last pics before his extraction this Tuesday. Unfortunately, I think you have to click on the links...[img] does not seem to work well for Amazon (unless I'm doing it wrong, which is entirely possible).

https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/S9zHDc1DFboPJFbFCTK9mEdUbDBRLkIPDlsUtyCbu8l
https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/s4e5hsPaIp9PHb1RiKztPImumZQm5Rk4vDF6KKOWrYg

https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/FsJ1y8L2n4QBboJlBO87pQ0pslP2z9ujFazN8CV2QVO

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Re: EOTRH

Postby texsuze » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:52 pm

Jingles! By now you are either at the vet or on your way back home. Keep us posted when you are able to.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:40 pm

We dropped him off yesterday just before noon, to give him time to settle. Good idea, as he was wound up pretty tight...jigging around, wouldn't load and was kicking in the trailer when he finally did. He still wouldn't settle at the hospital, and kept staring out his window outside, half rearing/kicking at the outside door, throwing his head around - so he lost his window privileges. Which caused him to pace and circle in his huge stall, ignoring hay and only taking a mint from me. Sweaty, stressing mess :-(. Good grief. The vet tech asked me if I was sure he was 24 (yes).

I reminded the surgeon and staff that he doesn't do clippers, something I neglected to do the first time he was there getting surgery (sesamoiditis when he was 8). In fact, he was blowing & snorting at the barn and threatening to exit stage left when I was clipping off a fingernail that was hanging on, having snapped it getting his bell boots off. What a goober, seriously.

Had a short chat with the surgeon; he's actually the same surgeon who did his fetlock surgery, and has visited Hi-Oc several times doing checkups. He hopes to be able to pull the gums over the holes, so after-care is minimal - just a couple of rechecks by him and daily checks of course. He'll need loose hay - nothing compacted like alfalfa, which he can't get anyway as he REALLY gets amped on it - but other than that, he should manage just fine.

10:35am and I haven't heard anything yet. :shock:

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Tuffytown » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:31 pm

We're all on pins and needles.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:49 pm

Surgery went well (PHEW). All 12 incisors, and one premolar that had fractured and was loose, were removed. There were pockets of fluid (not pus) in some of the sockets that were evidently pressing on nerves/roots and causing discomfort. Doc said he's a pretty tough dude to put up with that kind of chronic pain, so recovery should be a breeze - and relief - for him. They were able to do it all standing.

I can breathe now. I'm not lying when I say I thought I was going to lose him.

He'll stay overnight tonight, and *might* be able to come home tomorrow. It all depends on how well he's eating/pooping/drinking. Knowing him, the first two should not be an issue. He's probably hangry and mugging for treats already.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Tuffytown » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:33 am

His boyfriend will be happy to hear that. Apparently he ran to his mommy today cause his dominator was gone.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Josette » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:49 am

Very glad to hear this great update. Your guy certainly is tough and should resume eating quickly now. When I brought my guy home I remember rinsing his mouth daily with a large syringe - very easy - just to remove food particles from stitches. By week 5 all was healed with clean healthy gums. Keep us posted - jingles for smooth recovery.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:02 am

Josette wrote:Very glad to hear this great update. Your guy certainly is tough and should resume eating quickly now. When I brought my guy home I remember rinsing his mouth daily with a large syringe - very easy - just to remove food particles from stitches. By week 5 all was healed with clean healthy gums. Keep us posted - jingles for smooth recovery.


Thank you! Yes - I was all prepared to rinse his mouth out, but doc says it's not necessary. He'll have two antibiotic injections by the time he comes home as well.

I asked about the teeth...he kept them for me. I joked about making a necklace out of them, but he said they could actually use them as teaching props - I'm all for that! (I might keep one or two, macabre that they are).

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Re: EOTRH

Postby texsuze » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:41 pm

Whew, I was thinking of ya'll the last couple of days! Now your guy can eventually return to his 'true' self, for better or worse ;) I like the idea of using the teeth as teaching props; the more vets increase their knowledge base about this condition, the better. Having said that, I scheduled a visit for my oldster next week with the vet I use for floats. I'll be asking him about EOTRH, but I somehow fear that despite his experience with equine dental work, he will not be familiar with it.

Keep us posted!

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Chisamba » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:27 pm

Glad for the good update.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby NanSawRN » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:22 am

Finding this thread very interesting and helpful. My 30 year old NSH gelding was just diagnosed with EOTRH a few weeks ago. He seems comfortable for now, and I'll let him 'tell' me when things have changed. I'm soaking hay and grain. Any suggestions beyond that would be appreciated.
Our vet 'happened' to come upon this issue with him gums when I had him out to help with some skin problems. The horse was so young for his age (we just completed the Century Ride last summer) so although we're both seniors and in denial :o I found the diagnosis devastating!

Thanks for any thoughts and support you might offer!

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:26 am

NanSawRN wrote:Finding this thread very interesting and helpful. My 30 year old NSH gelding was just diagnosed with EOTRH a few weeks ago. He seems comfortable for now, and I'll let him 'tell' me when things have changed. I'm soaking hay and grain. Any suggestions beyond that would be appreciated.
Our vet 'happened' to come upon this issue with him gums when I had him out to help with some skin problems. The horse was so young for his age (we just completed the Century Ride last summer) so although we're both seniors and in denial :o I found the diagnosis devastating!

Thanks for any thoughts and support you might offer!


If it helps any, Dr Hanson (Hi-Oc's surgeon) said that it was actually closer to 7 years ago that he was diagnosed. So well over 6 years of monitoring his condition, with only signs of pain showing up in the last 90 days or so.

Soaking your hay and grain is unnecessary unless he's missing molars. You can certainly "fluff" the hay so it's already torn apart, as that's the only time they use their incisors to eat hay. Other than that, their diet and keeping method stays surprisingly the same.

Looking back, I would've sprung the money for radiographs earlier, if anything to maybe catch the disease progression early enough to save some teeth, and prevent the large amount of pain my boy must have endured.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:42 am

So we brought him home today. First impressions: His demeanor is very bright, not as manic/anxious as Monday, but very alert. He has swelling around his face/chin, which is to be expected. He also lost about 30 pounds, looking very tucked up with pointy hips.

Vet said he finished his breakfast hay no prob, but didn't really want his pelleted feed (a mix of Timothy pellets and LMF Gentle Balance, a low sugar complete feed). He also wouldn't eat the apple slices they gave him...probably because they hid a Equioxx tablet in one and he's no fool lol. He did take a peppermint from me no prob. :-)

His tongue sticks out about 2". Poor guy was dragging it through the shavings, and they were sticking. <sigh>

Got him home, and it was obvious that he was really hungry. Took him out to graze (!) and YES, he's figured out that he can only rip off the tall grass. So he got a bit frustrated, and got a bit anxious. Put him in his paddock and threw a fluffy flake in which he started devouring immediately. He's on Equioxx for 2 weeks, and Dr Hanson will check him on Friday, and give him a second antibiotic injection. We're told that the stiches may give way, but to really just keep an eye on his demeanor/appetite/weight. He expects it to heal within a month. I'll post up pics after I charge my phone.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:38 am

***WARNING*** The following pictures are graphic; please use appropriate discretion.

You might recognize tooth #202...second from foreground in this photo. https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/fbuUpg2yixTuAFR5m1lXYmHBXzb51SDGt71DiAajmbX

https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/srEGl1dABKZyokLIm3DfxkrKgRuB19dtw3N61OpoFvw

The broken premolar is the one to the right, just off the paper towel.https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/w3suO065vFZ7kzo0RpfnpcCaK5tSsAzJ45MBp7GvLae

ALL of these teeth are diseased. Some views on the radiographs did not reveal the extent to which they were, however. The amount of extra cementum is simply amazing.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:39 am

He doesn't really want us looking at his mouth right now. Can't say I don't blame him. https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/76zR7pqSKUA4rZ5ckcu8UYSVJm7cHuEKJqLgEz6X90M

This picture, however, is just him enjoying his hay. :-) https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/7aE2MOs6nwFKACvgV9OCHSLlYIpeHTaNBPZ0VUSYS83

Josette
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Re: EOTRH

Postby Josette » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:10 pm

Excellent that he is eating his hay. It may take a bit longer before he decides to try the feed due to mouth soreness. I had taken weekly pictures to track the healing as asked by the assisting vet - he wanted to use for teaching purposes. (I deleted them when I lost my guy.) Yes, there is some tongue protrusion but it may lessen but some will always remain. Your pics are what I expected although I never saw my guy's extracted teeth - I suspect they were taken for teaching purposes too.

I waited before trying my guy on grass - as you saw they need the front teeth to pull/tear and he is still sore/healing. I'd wait out the month until all healed before giving it another try - don't want to frustrate and upset him. Keep him happy with the hay - maybe soak the feed to soften too. Good news is he is very motivated to eat and just adjusting to his changed mouth.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:23 am

Vet was out today to give him a booster antibiotic shot...Hi-Oc was having NONE of Dr Hansen :-(. Finally had to twitch him, which worked beautifully. He's still amped up, really wants to graze :( but can't. Gums looks great - especially the top. The mottled/blotchy look is gone, replaced with happy, pink gums.

His MO of late is to munch on his hay, then stop. BO has figured out that if you remove said hay, and replace it with same - he'll go back to eating it. We've upped his beet pulp and doubled his pellet/complete feed ration to get some weight back on him, and he seems to like a really fine local hay. I had reduced his Quiessence ration down as he was doing ok on it...that might have been a mistake. Until I can get my next order on 3/17, I bought some tryptophan/magnesium supplement tonight. I find it mildly amusing that I have work to keep a 24yo calm lol...I mean, I'm glad he feels good/better, but I can do without the prancing/rearing/bucking in place.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:26 am

Josette wrote:Excellent that he is eating his hay. It may take a bit longer before he decides to try the feed due to mouth soreness. I had taken weekly pictures to track the healing as asked by the assisting vet - he wanted to use for teaching purposes. (I deleted them when I lost my guy.) Yes, there is some tongue protrusion but it may lessen but some will always remain. Your pics are what I expected although I never saw my guy's extracted teeth - I suspect they were taken for teaching purposes too.

I waited before trying my guy on grass - as you saw they need the front teeth to pull/tear and he is still sore/healing. I'd wait out the month until all healed before giving it another try - don't want to frustrate and upset him. Keep him happy with the hay - maybe soak the feed to soften too. Good news is he is very motivated to eat and just adjusting to his changed mouth.


Dr Hansen actually said he could go out to "graze" whenever - which was surprising, considering the reasons you stated. We've decided to keep him "in" - in his large paddock with a shelter - just so we can keep hay in front of him, and let him heal a bit more. I'm not sure if his anxiety would be worse if we turned him out on grass he can't bite, or better? This time of year there isn't much longer grass, either. I'm thinking tomorrow of turning him out in the indoor and see if he just wants to burn off some energy.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:28 am

**And annoying enough, my iPad keeps auto correcting Dr Hanson to Dr Hansen. It's spelled with an O. Arrrrggg...

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Josette » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:18 pm

It sounds like your guy is making a speedy recovery and trying to adjust to his revised mouth / eating habits. You know his temperament and can decide what he prefers and what upsets him. Sometimes I think any change in routine such as going to a certain turnout location everyday is more the issue than whether grass is available. I'm a backyard situation and my guys have large private turnout off their stalls. So doors open 24/7 free access to hay inside. My front lawn is where I can grow some decent grass in the summer. Entire property is enclosed/gated. So one horse is turned out at a time for several hours on it. Supper time the loose horse automatically brings himself into barn/stall. They certainly are creatures of habit and some are less flexible than others. :)

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Tuffytown » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:11 pm

highoctane wrote:**And annoying enough, my iPad keeps auto correcting Dr Hanson to Dr Hansen. It's spelled with an O. Arrrrggg...



No, Yok says it's spelled "devil"

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Re: EOTRH

Postby texsuze » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:49 pm

Glad he is home and seems to be unphased by the surgery, only the inconvenience of his management ;)
Looking at the extracted teeth and noticing (as mentioned in your xray post) no roots in the teeth. Now I'm starting to get very nervous, since the incisor removed from my oldster last June also had no roots.....We see a dental vet this coming week and I'll be asking about EOTRH at that time. Keep us posted if you will, since management issues are a big part of the recovery and overall picture. Thanks for sharing this.

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:48 am

texsuze wrote:Glad he is home and seems to be unphased by the surgery, only the inconvenience of his management ;)
Looking at the extracted teeth and noticing (as mentioned in your xray post) no roots in the teeth. Now I'm starting to get very nervous, since the incisor removed from my oldster last June also had no roots.....We see a dental vet this coming week and I'll be asking about EOTRH at that time. Keep us posted if you will, since management issues are a big part of the recovery and overall picture. Thanks for sharing this.


Which incisor was removed?

His mouth is stinky, which is normal and to be expected. I'm still absolutely shocked at how very healthy his gums look...it's amazing. Makes sense though, since all that nasty infected root/fluid/bone was removed, it's now got a chance to BE healthy.

I also thought he might want to burn off some steam today. At first I thought I'd lunge him, but he was pretty calm so I just let him loose in the arena. He feels VERY good thankyouverymuch :D . Hubby took a video - I'll see if I can get it posted here. He's also already put some lbs back on - he's not so tucked up and pointy hipped (you can still see/feel too much ribs IMHO, but his winter shag hides them).

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Re: EOTRH

Postby highoctane » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:56 am

Here's the video...and you can see why I think he has dressage talent. :-)

https://youtu.be/29g5R3R8psE

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Re: EOTRH

Postby texsuze » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:17 am

My oldster's upper rt. front incisor was the one removed.

Video is funny--love that snort at the end :) Sounds just like my 25 y.o. sometimes!

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Re: EOTRH

Postby Josette » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:19 pm

:shock: :o :lol: :lol: Oh My - he certainly does not look or move his age!! He does look fabulous for his age and certainly can move! Do what ever keeps him happy IMO.

My crazy pony age 16 broke loose on the crossties yesterday (halter broke). I had removed a tick from his chest and applied ointment. It must of stung because he shot backwards and then fought until he broke himself free. It happened so fast and he would not listen to me to calm down. :(


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