To shoe or not to shoe

[Rosie B]

Hi Guys,

Bliss blew a pretty big abscess out the heel of his right front on Thursday and is still quite sore. I had a vet out today (not my vet unfortunately) and he prescribed antibiotics as his leg is a little puffy and has shown slight progression in puffiness since Thursday.

Bliss is barefoot and has been barefoot all his life with no issues. I trim him myself and this is his first abscess. The vet used hoof pinchers on his right front and said that his whole sole was super tender and painful. He recommended I put front shoes on for the summer and said that he won't be sound without them.

I picked up A LOT of pro-shoe bias/ignorance from this guy (as well as many other biases and he also said some things that were flat out offensive), so I don't know that I believe what he was telling me. I also have a clinic on May 20th/21st that I am hoping he will be better for.

So I don't know what to do. I don't really want to put shoes on because I worry that the farrier will do a whack job on his feet (take off a pile of heel that he needs to feel comfortable). At the same time, I want him to recover well from the abscess.

Thoughts?

[Chisamba]

Second opinion?

Were his soles tender?

Once abscess does not worry me.

[musical comedy]

Thoughts?

I would find a competent vet and a competent farrier. If one is unable to come to you, then van out. I wouldn't have waited around for two weeks for this thing to pop. I would have had it opened by my farrier. The few times my horse had an abscess, I did not put the shoe back on until the abscess was fully drained and continued to treat it with the shoe on. I would not dream of going to a clinic after my horse had been off for two weeks and still sore.

Did the vet hoof test the other hoof? Because if he was foot sore from going barefoot, the other hoof should test positive too.

My horse has had some edema in the abscessed leg from lack of circulation. That may be the cause of yours, or it could be more. I am one of those horse owners that calls a vet for everything immediately.

[Tsavo]

I pulled my horse's hind shoes to let an abscess drain and never put them back on. I can't see putting a shoe on in this case unless you need a pad but then that might obstruct access to the abscess.

MC has seen edema up the leg but I have not and I wonder if you are dealing with something more than simple abscess.

Good luck with this.

[Rosie B]

Thanks guys.

No second opinion yet. My regular vet is back next week and I love her so I'm considering having her out.

I have never dealt with an abscess before and wasn't sure at first that's what this was. Ordinarily I have the vet out for every little thing but in this case I waited as he was a little sore at first and my trainer said not to worry just give it a little time. One week later he seemed quite a bit less sore so I longed him very briefly to check and there was still some soreness but not a lot so thought great I'll give it a few more days. When I went to longe him again four days later he seemed more sore again and then it blew 36 hours after that. Hindsight is 20/20 and I should have called the vet immediately when he first turned up sore.

MC thanks for the straight up answer re the clinic. I'd been looking forward to this for over 6 months and it's the only thing I had planned so far this season, and was to be the first event I'd taken him to since 2015 so it's hard to give up on it. It's not even with a BNT or even a "dressage" clinic... just was looking forward to getting out and about with him in a low key way for the first time in a long time. obviously if he is not 100% in a week we won't be going.

Unfortunately I didn't think to ask the vet to test the other hoof for soreness. I was still in shock at some of the offensive stuff he'd said and just wanted him gone.

[musical comedy]

Rosie, maybe some of the members that use hoof boots could tell you if that might work temporarily if his soles are sore. I have a Cavallo boot that I put on when my horse loses a shoe. It's a very clumsy thing, but it does protect the hoof. Also, if you can access the tract, you can squirt meds up there and keep it clean. I shot penicillin up there at one point.

Most often abscesses start from bacteria getting into the white line. However, sole brusing is known to cause them as well. Before you brought him home, was he working on hard or rocky footing?

[Kyra's Mom]

I was going to suggest hoof boots.

In the summer when it is dry and due to the rock migration problem we have at my barn, I work Kyra in boots for all mounted work. Usually from May through October. I use Renegade boots and have no problem running through all movements including lateral work and flying changes (was just 'playing' with them before all my physical woes). It take me about 5 minutes to put on all 4 and about 2 minutes to pull them off. You would probably just need boots for the fronts. I have been doing this arrangement since she was 6. I honestly would have no problems with shoes but she does. She is a bi*#! during the nailing process despite hours and hours of working with her. I decided to try the BF with boots when needed vs sedation for shoeing.

There are a lot of types of boots out there and I don't know what you have access to in Canada but most of the companies are very helpful to get you set up.

It sounds like he had a pretty big sub-solar abscess and I would shift toward some type of protection for that foot. Kyra had an abscess a couple years ago. Not sure why (weird weather and strange ground conditions?) but it seemed to be an isolated incident with no problems since then.

Edited to add...when Kyra had her abscess, she initially had some mild swelling into the pastern. I did end up taking her to the vet and he did put hoof testers on her and I thought she was very annoyed by that maneuver but he didn't seem to think it a problem and deemed that she sprained her fetlock. He gave me some bute and I gave her that for 3 days. She was better so I didn't go out for ONE day. The next day I went out . Stovepipe leg with massive swelling from hoof to up above the hock and nearly 3 legged lame. My friend helped me soak her foot and fetlock in cold water (I was on crutches--we were a pair ). I was wondering what she blew up. When I pulled her leg out of the bucket to give it a once over, her heel still very hot. At this point, I was thinking (and hoping) abscess. The next morning when I went to check her, yeah--we have a hole and a much less lame horse. It blew out the heel. It took the swelling a good 3 weeks to resolve and she was out and moving 24/7.

Susan

[Flight]

Maybe a second opinion in this case? Especially if you don't trust the farrier completely.

My horses are barefoot but the big horse has had a set of front shoes twice now, once for some cracks that needed clearing up and I wanted to keep riding and he was too tender barefoot, and another time was post abscess. He only had them on each time for that cycle, so max of 5 weeks and then they were off and his tootsies had grown out and he was fine.
I trust my farrier though, he's not fussed if horses have shoes or not, just whatever they happen to need.

I have used hoof boots in the past, and they were ok, but a shoes are just more convenient.

[kande50]

So I don't know what to do. I don't really want to put shoes on because I worry that the farrier will do a whack job on his feet (take off a pile of heel that he needs to feel comfortable). At the same time, I want him to recover well from the abscess.

Thoughts?

I'd continue to trim him myself and use boots if he needed more protection. Shoeing IMO, protects the hoof too much for too long, and then it gets even weaker (thinner soles, softer hoof where it should be calloused, weaker frogs and digital cushions).

Shoeing is an effective short term solution for a weak hoof, but at some point the shoes need to come off and the hoof needs to be challenged or it'll just get weaker and weaker. BTDT.

If this is his clubby hoof the heels need to be trimmed frequently to prevent them from getting too high, and if he has shoes on that effectively prevents access to the hoof for trimming. So then you not only risk too low heels when the shoes go on, but too high heels in a few weeks. Not to mention narrower weaker frogs, deeper collateral grooves and sulci, and an even weaker sole than he has now. IMO, it's not only about sole thickness, but sole density is a factor, too.

He may have had a sub-solar abscess, which is why the bottom of his hoof is still sore even though the abscess has drained. That may improve considerably in a very short time, so if he was mine I'd wait a couple more weeks to see if he's still sore before nailing shoes on. In fact, I very seldom nail shoes on anymore unless I just can't keep the boots on. I'll even modify how I ride (slow down, take it easy) so that I can use boots instead of nailing shoes on, because I hate the way the sole drops after the hoof has had a shoe on for awhile.

[musical comedy]

With regard to antibiotics for hoof abcess, there are some dmv's that claim antibiotics suppress the infection and prohibit it from draining.

[kande50]

With regard to antibiotics for hoof abcess, there are some dmv's that claim antibiotics suppress the infection and prohibit it from draining.

Vets seem to be all over the place on bute, too.

Recently, the vets that were treating a hoof abscess in a friend's pony came and xrayed the hoof to find out where the abscess was, and then decided not to open it up but to see if it would resolve on it's own. Days later they decided to open it, but by then the pony was so sick they ended up putting her down.

There may have been other complicating factors, but why would they xray an abscess if it wasn't to find it so they could open it? And then, when they opened it they made a huge hole, even though I've always heard that there's a danger that the sole could prolapse if the hole is too big, so it's better to make a smaller hole and then soak the hoof so that the hole won't close up before it's finished draining.

[musical comedy]

Vets seem to be all over the place on bute, too.

Yes, and this is precisely why I think it is important to not just believe everything one reads or what someone tells us. Whether it be a vet, a trainer, or other, it is up to us to do as much research as possible and choose the right way of dealing with whatever it is. Of course, sometimes we don't have that luxury and have to decide quickly what to do. Believe me, a lot of what I know now comes from making mistakes.

Recently, the vets that were treating a hoof abscess in a friend's pony came and xrayed the hoof to find out where the abscess was, and then decided not to open it up but to see if it would resolve on it's own. Days later they decided to open it, but by then the pony was so sick they ended up putting her down.

There may have been other complicating factors, but why would they xray an abscess if it wasn't to find it so they could open it? And then, when they opened it they made a huge hole, even though I've always heard that there's a danger that the sole could prolapse if the hole is too big, so it's better to make a smaller hole and then soak the hoof so that the hole won't close up before it's finished draining.

It makes no sense. I am very fortunate that my primary vet (who also rides and owns horses) is really skilled at finding the abscess tract. He's not real close to me, so a few times I hauled my horse over to the clinic and the top vet there couldn't find it. He came and found it right away. My farrier uses infrared to see things.

[piedmontfields]

I think checking in with the vet you trust is reasonable. I would not conclude that shoes are that helpful. That said, this is your/Bliss's first abscess and it may seem extra dramatic to you. In general, I find it easier to clean/care for a blown abscess when shoes are not in the picture (unless a vet has dug a huge hole in my horses' foot and I need pads--I prefer to avoid that situation). I like an abscess that opens out the heel as it is fairly easy to clean and tends to heal well.

I'm not going to say an abscess is no big deal, but alas some of us have dealt with a ton of them and do have some perspective. My general approach is that if an abscess does not open up/clear within a week (with soaking and overnight drawing salve), I contact my vet to explore whether issues are going on.

Emi had about 9 different abscesses in all four feet the first 1.5 years I had her. Terrible I know. I think a combo of diet and environment changes set her up for these. Most blew out very quickly and she went right back to work. However, it was not unusual for her to initially present with a sad swollen leg that she would not weight. The first few times she did this it really freaked me out. Then I learned her mode of presentation (incredible sadness + swelling). When she was that sad, I would bute and continue to turnout while monitoring and poulticing overnight in a stall. If she was not that sad, I would not bute. In general, movement helps the abscess open so I would only bute enough to keep her moving about. Bute tends to delay the opening of an abscess, so I don't use indiscriminately.

Two big management changes helped Emi get over the awful abscess period: 1. I changed to a an even lower sugar diet and 2. I changed her hoof care to a very skilled barefoot trimmer (I had kept her mostly barefoot before, but not with a specialist trimmer). Abscesses are now very rare for her, even during soggy periods (which can be prolonged here in Tennessee). She has a thicker sole, thicker hoof wall, better diet and is now living in drier, more managed turnout.

I would not switch a horse who has been successfully barefoot for years to shoes without quite a bit of thought (and a consult with trusted trimmer/farrier). I am not critiquing your trimming at all, but another option is to get a consult from a skilled barefoot trimmer.

p.s. It is quite possible that Bliss will feel fine in time for his clinic. Usually relief is immediate after the abscess opens.

[Rosie B]

Thank-you guys for your perspectives.

Lots of stuff to think about.

Bliss is less sore and less swollen. I can't see any soreness while walking but haven't had an opportunity to trot him out yet. I'll try that tonight after the kids are in bed.

I think part of the reason it took so long to blow is because I couldn't soak/poultice consistently until a week in. I was sick the first few days (feverish and it was all I could do to get the barn work done), then the kids were sick, I had to take Max to the emergency room (he's ok), and I ran out of Epsom salts and poulticing materials. I know that sounds like a lot of excuses but that's mom life... sometimes horses have to come second.

Anyway, it blew on the fourth or fifth day of consistent soaking/poulticing.

My plan is to just give him as much time as he needs til he has no pain in his heel then evaluate the shoe situation. If he's fine after that, I won't shoe.

The only barefoot trimmer around here trimmed him twice and the second time trimmed him so short it took THREE weeks until he was sound again. My former farrier did the same thing. So I'm on my own. Unfortunately.

[piedmontfields]

Just a thought on trimmer, because good barefoot trimmers are so enthusiastic about their work: See if someone will look at photos and give you feedback. I think many would do that out of their commitment to their profession. I use someone trained by Jamie Jackson, but there are various approaches out there. I'm happy to inquire if that is helpful for you.

I totally get that the soaking thing can't always happen (I swear that Emi and I bonded over me soaking a hoof during cold winter nights time and time again). Hope Bliss is much happier soon.

[khall]

Rosie, if you ever have a abscess issue again, forget the soaking, poultice in epsom salt poultice or animalintex poultice pads. I quit soaking after finding these beauties.

I am of the if the horse needs shoes, then put shoes on. But I have an awesome farrier who can shoe with the best in the US.

[piedmontfields]

Rosie, if you ever have a abscess issue again, forget the soaking, poultice in epsom salt poultice or animalintex poultice pads. I quit soaking after finding these beauties.

Even easier: Use the product "Rebound." It will even stick to a barefoot hoof! (well enough for overnight in a stall). It also sticks really well to a shoed hoof and no wrapping is required.

I keep Rebound on hand as insurance against abscesses! (it is not cheap)

[Larbear]

Hi Guys,

Bliss is barefoot and has been barefoot all his life with no issues. I trim him myself and this is his first abscess. The vet used hoof pinchers on his right front and said that his whole sole was super tender and painful. He recommended I put front shoes on for the summer and said that he won't be sound without them.

I picked up A LOT of pro-shoe bias/ignorance from this guy (as well as many other biases and he also said some things that were flat out offensive), so I don't know that I believe what he was telling me. I also have a clinic on May 20th/21st that I am hoping he will be better for.

Sorry, I don't remember the history behind Bliss but how old is he and how long have you been trimming him? If it's been awhile and this is his first abscess if it were me, I'd be questioning the vet and be somewhat skeptical. If you're confident with your trimming and he's been going fine with no problems I'd just keep doing what you're doing. You could always enlist the help of another farrier/trimmer to assess his feet to see if they see any red flags or anything but I wouldn't be automatically leaping to shoes because of that vet. Shod horses get abscess too.

[Rosie B]

Thanks again guys. Very good info.

Larbear - he's 7 and I've been trimming him for over four years. This is his first abscess. Thanks for that. I've had some time now to digest and have more perspective. I'm just going to wait til he's sound and take it from there.

Peidmont - I would be very interested in someone looking at photos of his feet. I try to follow Pete Ramey's method (I have read and studied all his books) but I'm not a pro so any help would be great. Especially where he's club footed. I know his heels are too high now on both sides as I couldn't stay on top of them like I usually do over the winter. Planning to rectify that over the next couple months.

[musical comedy]

Rosie, since this is his first abscess and the first time he has been foot sore, could it have been caused by the footing he was working on where you had him? Could he have gotten soft soles from being out in wet grass? How do you feel about using Keratex Hoof Hardener? A lot of people/farriers swear by it. I think maybe the vet's recommendation for shoes was for the tender soles, not to prevent abscess.

[Tsavo]

My farrier often mentions using Keretex. I use it occasionally. I have used the putty to plug the hole after that last abscess healed so it would stay clean. I don't know if I could have recovered that foot as quickly if he was shod and didn't have the putty. That was December and the hole is still not grown out but it is clean and healed. Love love love the putty.

[Rosie B]

MC - I just realized I didn't answer your earlier question about rocky terrain either.

The arena where he was all winter was a dirt outdoor, and his turnout was also dirt. We had a real mixed bag with winter this year - we had snow, we had rain, we had warm temps, we had cold temps. Throughout this he was in work on whatever footing was available. Sometimes it was the driveway hill, sometimes the snow, and sometimes just walking on frozen ground. So I am not sure the effect that would have had on his feet... but their dirt outdoor was generally quite wet with lots of puddles so maybe that softened his feet?

Our footing is much better here. My arena doesn't get puddles even in the wettest weather and my paddocks although a little muddy right now are quite a bit drier than the barn where he was. My larger paddock also sprouted a huge crop of rocks over the winter which I didn't get picked up until last week, so I suspect maybe his soles were a little soft and he nailed one of the rocks? Either that or the cleft of his heel was a little thrushy (it was looking very deep) and that led to an abscess. Anyway, he's feeling quite a bit better now. I'm going to try a quick longe tonight to check how he's feeling. He was running around the paddock today looking fine, but the longe line will give me a better read.

And yes I would consider using anything that could help... Off to do some reading about Keretex.

[piedmontfields]

Rosie, FYI I am making inquiries with my trimmer and will let you know if I get suggestions for a remote consult!

UPDATE: My trimmer suggests contacting Jamie Jackson directly as he does do remote consultations. See https://www.jaimejackson.com/pages/abou ... sultations for more information. Contact kjillwillis@gmail.com to request a consult with Jamie and to receive a pre-consult questionnaire.

You can also learn more about Jamie's philosophy here: https://www.aanhcp.net/ There are a few trimmers listed in eastern Canada.

p.s. I used to use Keratex and it seemed somewhat helpful. But I stopped a few years ago when I started getting miss mare's feet in order. No longer seems necessary.

[Rosie B]

Thanks piedmont!

So Bliss lunged well the other night. He took a few tentative/off steps and then was like "oh ok this doesn't hurt!" He wasn't 100% but definitely much much better.

After a good long hard look at his feet and some more reading in my textbook on hoof care, I realized his soles are thin because I let his heels get too high. Having the high heels put him on his toes biomechanically so there is more wear there than there should be. So I took about 3mm off his heels and that's helped. I need to take more off but I'm going to do it slowly. I also put venice turpentine on his soles and will do that a few more times. He really needs to regrow sole under his toes to be more comfortable. I am likely going to order a pair of hoof boots. I'm considering the easyboot original as that seems fairly straight forward.

Interestingly, he's been a bit of a brat to lead throughout all of this (which is very uncharacteristic for him) and since I took his heels down his behaviour has improved 100%. So I think the brattiness/attitude was him telling me he was uncomfortable.

I lunged again this am and he looked totally ok so I hopped on and had a quick ride just going forward and straight and not asking for much other than that. He was great and it was wonderful to be back in the saddle.