ERU

Abby Kogler
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ERU

Postby Abby Kogler » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:39 am

I was given an old (mid twenties) very thin very cute tall TB, has been a foxhunter, jumper, what have you. The people told me had a 'runny eye' that they periodically put stuff in but weren't sure what they put in it, something from the vet. I have a feeling it didn't happen very often and his eye was very drippy when I took him over.

He has gotten fat and shiny and is very dear, I really love him. He has developed an affectionate personality, is super fun to ride, was a great honest little jumper, is silly but never scary, just super fun. I have only been riding for a few weeks but my vet friend was riding him and I was watching, and in between my foot infections I would just walk him around. I had the vet look at that eye as soon as I got him (I was just a couple days post Nov 3 surgery when they offered him to me, I had a vet friend take care of him until I could bring him home). It stained fine, she said probably ERU, we did the standard protocol (atropine, dorp, polydex, and banamine). I got him a Guardian mask. He responded and had been doing pretty well. I could tell his vision was affected though.

He is now having the flareups all the time. His eye is getting that milky look and he seems very hesitant about stuff. Im really sick about. I have been aggressive with the ivermectin since onchocerca is associated with ERU and I have seen aggressive treatment work very well. But it is not keeping the flareups at bay. Doc checks him regularly and is not liking the progression either.

I have seen horses go fully blind with this and it is so painful and terrible for them. I have never owned one, though have cared for some over the years.

Questions: experiences: time frames: thoughts please.

I have talked to Doc about the implant. I guess there are mixed results with this.

When it is flaring it is really painful for him. I keep him in the bright part of the day and only have him out when it is shady and he has his mask on.

A sweet mare I knew went totally white eyed blind and I felt like her owners went way beyond what they should have done, I felt that they were selfish and that she really suffered. I think his vision has been really affected...I tried to just walk over a pole the other day and he had a terrible time...he acted like he just couldn't see it fully...its been a big change from a few months ago.

kande50
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Re: ERU

Postby kande50 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:21 am

Abby Kogler wrote:
When it is flaring it is really painful for him. I keep him in the bright part of the day and only have him out when it is shady and he has his mask on.


Have you considered having the affected eye removed?

Abby Kogler
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Re: ERU

Postby Abby Kogler » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:30 pm

Yes, but it at his age it seems so traumatic to put him through this..I have mixed feelings about it. I know that some/most horses do fine tih only one eye. I just hate it though.

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Re: ERU

Postby exvet » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:58 pm

If enucleation will remove any chances of pain and if not done the horse is going to inevitably go blind in that eye, the only question or issue in my mind is the type of surgical candidate he is. If the risks of surgery (for complications) is low and the procedure isn't financially out of the question I would absolutely pursue enucleation as an alternative to multiple painful episodes that ultimately lead to the same end; but, then I've had blind horses who did fine. I've performed the surgery. I have seen the difference in animals (for the better) when all pain has been removed.

Abby Kogler
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Re: ERU

Postby Abby Kogler » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:10 pm

Thanks exvet. I appreciate the reassurance. I know that this is true, and have worked with and around one eyed horses and know they can even compete and lead totally normal lives. I wonder about his age and his ability to adapt. Thanks for weighing in.

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Re: ERU

Postby kande50 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:17 pm

We bought an older horse in May who just had his first episode (here). We figured out from his behavior that he had limited vision in his right eye, and then a few weeks later the light was just right and I noticed that the eye was cloudy so started to suspect uveitis.

Just this week he had his first episode and didn't seem the least bit phased by it, and seemed much more upset by being kept in than about his swollen eye. So I got a light blocking mask from a friend and turned him back out and he seems much happier now.

He's a good trail horse so my plan for him is to treat the flare ups and then if we think he's in too much pain have the eye taken out. Hopefully, it won't start in the other one, but if he loses the sight in that one and seems to be in pain that one will have to go, too.

If it was me and I had no sight in the eye and it was painful I'd want it gone, so that's my plan for him.

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Re: ERU

Postby Code3 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:26 pm

I've had two horses with ERU. Both OTTBs. The first also had an injury, and was fine when we removed the eye. The second was caught early, treated appropriately, and still devolved into increasingly hard to treat and more frequent flare ups. We thought about doing a cyclosporine (sp?) implant at UC Davis but before we could get him in he had another bad flare and I opted for enucleation. Both of my horses were happier with the eye removed. The first still jumped and both lived out their lives without issues. The first horse taught me that enucleation was a positive thing and the reason I advocated for it with the second horse before the vet was totally sold. What I know is that my horses were more relaxed in their entire bodies when the eye was removed so, for those two at least, I think the pain was pretty bad.

All the best for you new guy!

Abby Kogler
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Re: ERU

Postby Abby Kogler » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:54 pm

Thanks Code!

I have a feeling the original eye is quite blind and he seems to have it now in the other eye. He is terribly wary, completely resists going from light to dark or dark to light, startles if I walk up to him even when I am talking and then touch him...its breaking my heart. He has been such a wonderful project, hes beautiful, and sound, and has done such a personality turnaround. But I think he is getting dangerous to handle...I wish I had gotten him earlier, maybe we could have slowed it down or saved the other eye...who knows. Don't have a good feeling about it at all.

Thanks!

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quinta
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Re: ERU

Postby quinta » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:22 pm

Here is my (unhappy) story: I went through this last year with my mare - both eyes. Could not get it under control with the same regime that you are using now. Tried a few things at NCSU - steroid injections in the eye, leptospirosis antibiotics, and finally the cyclosporine implant surgery. The surgery went very well, and got the inflammation was under control. But, she then developed corneal ulcers that we could not heal (she also colicked, likely due to the lengthy atropine / banamine regime). For many reasons, double enucleation was not an option and I ended up euthanizing her about 8 months after the initial diagnosis. She was 19. It was awful. If it had only been one eye, I would have done enucleation much earlier in the process.

I am sorry you and your boy have to deal with the diagnosis. It sucks.

Abby Kogler
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Re: ERU

Postby Abby Kogler » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:38 am

Ah Quinta, so sorry. What a long sad story. Thank you for sharing it. This are all things Doc and I have discussed.

Yes, its a crummy syndrome and I am not sure what we will do. DH, non horse person, who pretty much cant tell one of the horses from the other, commented this morning 'There is something wrong with that one, he acts like he can't see...' I about fainted. Honestly DH is gifted intellectually I many ways but details about horses in not one of them; he might notice if one of the horses had a leg missing but even that is questionable...but he likes getting apples from the trees and feeding them in their various turnouts, he does it every day. Max will not come over any more...he backs away...if you roll the apples at him he does not see them...I think he sees big shapes but he cant tell what they are, and cant see things on the ground or small things. If I go over in the morning in a coat and hat, or carrying something, he backs away and shakes. This is all new behavior. I hate it for him. He would not walk over the caveletti, it was like he just couldn't tell what it was. Meh, Poor guy.

Thanks all. I cant see taking both eyes...and he is mid twenties at least. He looks beautiful though, he doesn't look old at all until you look in his mouth. My dentist said he was over 30 (Galvayne gone) but I don't believe that, hes too sound and has no gray on his face...but I do know he is at least mid twenties.

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Re: ERU

Postby exvet » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:33 pm

Good luck in your decision. The blessings of owning horses doesn't come without some serious obligations as all here well know. Quality of life is key. If it's not there and you can't safely continue to maintain it, there are responsible options.We owe our horses peace of mind, peace of heart and freedom from chronic pain. It's obvious that you strive for that like many of the rest of us. Not easy and no single right answer exists except for the one you come to while standing in your own two shoes.

Abby Kogler
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Re: ERU

Postby Abby Kogler » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:51 pm

exvet wrote:Good luck in your decision. The blessings of owning horses doesn't come without some serious obligations as all here well know. Quality of life is key. If it's not there and you can't safely continue to maintain it, there are responsible options.We owe our horses peace of mind, peace of heart and freedom from chronic pain. It's obvious that you strive for that like many of the rest of us. Not easy and no single right answer exists except for the one you come to while standing in your own two shoes.


Thanks EV. Its true, and hard. Putting them down is terrible but not as bad as seeing them suffer in any way. Animals have no way to rationalize pain and I cant bear the confusion or resignation or stress that they evince when something is really wrong. Over the years I have seen so much suffering caused by owners that cant let go until the dog/cat/horse is just really in misery. No. Just no.

But this one is tough. Since I suspect his end result is blindness in both eyes regardless, like Quinta, of what we do for him, I am thinking that sparing him that is the way to go. But oy. I love and have loved all my reject/projects over the years but he is special. Ah well. Ill post some before and after pictures.

If I can keep him safe and comfortable we will just see how things go.

Thanks.

Code3
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Re: ERU

Postby Code3 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:22 pm

Abby, I missed that it was both eyes. I know you'll do what's right - whatever that is. I'm sorry you're in this position. Lucky horse to have landed with you.

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Re: ERU

Postby texsuze » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:33 am

Reading this gives me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I had a free lease on an old (30+) pony as buddy for my retiree. Unbeknownst to me when pony came, he had a history of ERU in one eye. During flare ups, we did the 4x/day drops, the atropine, etc. etc. He was such a good boy. DH would stick the bottle of eyedrops in his pants pocket for a few minutes so the liquid would warm up a bit, then I'd hold ol' Piggy's halter while DH carefully gave the eye drops. It always required two people to give the drops. Piggy would get better and be good to go for a while, but inevitably the uveitis would return.

After about a year, I ended up having to make some tough personal life decisions and asked Piggy's owner if she'd take him back. She elected to send him to a retirement barn instead. Made me mad and sad because I knew his owner could afford to take him back into her care, and that he would not get the attention needed for his ERU at another barn. However, I simply could no longer keep him. The day the trailer arrived to pick up Piggy was the day my dad passed away.

ERU sucks.

Abby Kogler
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Re: ERU

Postby Abby Kogler » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:53 pm

Tex, bleah. What a sad story.

I am sure that my horse was sporadically treated with ophthalmic ointment but that was it. And there is no guarantee that if he been aggressively or consistently treated that the end result would be any different.

Code, yes, it seems to have affected his vision in both eyes.

No fun! No fun at all.

Thanks.

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Re: ERU

Postby LeoApp » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:18 pm

Horses can do OK completely blind. At least, some of them can. If he had a companion horse or donkey with a bell, that does work as a seeing eye horse. I am sorry for him but if he has a good mind he might do OK.

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Re: ERU

Postby Chisamba » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:56 am

are you using systemic anti inflammatories? We have found that the use of equioxx is essential in the suppression of flare ups in the pony at our barn that has ERU.

most studies i have read recommend a combination of steroids, systemic anti inflammatories and eye drops to treat but most people seem to only use the eye drops. I do not understand why.

Abby Kogler
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Re: ERU

Postby Abby Kogler » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:23 pm

Chisamba wrote:are you using systemic anti inflammatories? We have found that the use of equioxx is essential in the suppression of flare ups in the pony at our barn that has ERU.

most studies i have read recommend a combination of steroids, systemic anti inflammatories and eye drops to treat but most people seem to only use the eye drops. I do not understand why.


Yes, am using banamine when it flares and daily equioxx when it is quiet. I also have him on APF, MSM, and a Smartpak antioxidant/Vit E/immune thing and he wears his Guardian mask.

Since ERU is often an occhocerca issue I am also aggressive with the Ivermec protocol. I have had that work very well in the past. WIth this one, I am not sure it helps...he has had it a long time and it was left untreated Im afraid.

We'll see. Hes so dear.


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