Ringbone...

Dresseur
500 post plus club
Posts: 625
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:16 am

Ringbone...

Postby Dresseur » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:56 pm

I told my friend that I would help her do some digging in regards to ringbone. This is a new diagnosis, she is confirming with the vet whether or not its periarticular or articular, I DO know that it's mostly high, but there is a bit of low ringbone too.

So, what I'm looking for is any shoeing protocols that have worked - rolled vs half round, or pads etc.

Any oral joint supps that you have known to work (I think they just make expensive pee, but I'm willing to pass along info :lol: :lol: )

Injectables - what has moved the needle (no pun intended)... pentosan? Adequan? Spring for the Legend IV shots after doing a joint injection?

Magnetic therapy? Bell boots, ankle wraps?

The horse is older, she'd like to at least make the horse more comfortable - bute is not a long term option here because the horse doesn't tolerate bute well.

Thanks!

Tsavo
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1431
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:01 am

Re: Ringbone...

Postby Tsavo » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:15 pm

Well my horse is one data point.

We did one injection into the joint but he didn't come sound. He didn't do much for about 3 months and was unsound. It was only when I moved him and he was turned out 24/7 in a herd that he returned soundness.

His soundness is proportional to his work load. Other than work, he is on Equioxx. The vet gave me Adequan but I never gave it to him. I had given it twice before and there was no difference.

I did shoe him up front in case that was contributing to his mincing. I think rockers are recommended though I can't recall exactly.

To my knowledge there is no evidence of efficacy for any of the things you mentioned besides Equioxx and bute. Legend can't work in principle so that is out. Magnets, magical crystals, etc. have no evidence. If someone had the time and money to do blind studies using a Lameness Locator on this stuff it would be dismissed once and for all.

I would consider IRAP or other therapies if my horse was younger.
Last edited by Tsavo on Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dresseur
500 post plus club
Posts: 625
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:16 am

Re: Ringbone...

Postby Dresseur » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:35 pm

Curious as to why you say Legend would not work? It is IV form of hyaluronic acid - which for low ring bone or articular forms of ringbone is a treatment protocol that I've seen on most of what I've researched so far.

Tsavo
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1431
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:01 am

Re: Ringbone...

Postby Tsavo » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:08 pm

The amount administered is a fraction of what is already in the horse's system. The injected compound can't be detected 3 hours after injection.

https://www.doctorramey.com/intravenous ... an-legend/

It is correct to say it can't work in principle.

User avatar
Chisamba
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2606
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:33 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Ringbone...

Postby Chisamba » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:39 pm

I know that it doesn't work for ring bone. Injection, cortisone etc rarely help. In my experience it's a matter off how long can you keep them comfortable. Or nerving is an option.

Dresseur
500 post plus club
Posts: 625
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:16 am

Re: Ringbone...

Postby Dresseur » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:41 pm

This is why I wanted to ask! Thank you both!

heddylamar
500 post plus club
Posts: 500
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Ringbone...

Postby heddylamar » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:08 pm

Have you looked into Tildren or Osphos? I've read that they are being used to treat ringbone now. I don't know first-hand how effective either are for ringbone, but I have seen the results of Tildren used to treat navicular.

In a sample size of one, the combo of Tildren, neurectomy, and corrective shoeing gave my mother's Appy a whole new life. He received the initial and follow-up rounds of Tildren over 15 years ago (I don't think it was even in research phase in the US). His radiographs, both between doses, and after, have shown significant bone remodeling. Mom was able to ride him for many years after, and he's now in his late 20s, and still wandering around the pasture sound.

Tsavo
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1431
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:01 am

Re: Ringbone...

Postby Tsavo » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:09 am

There is little to no evidence for either Osphos or Tildren for anything and I would think none for ringbone. Here is a very recent report...

https://www.doctorramey.com/ready-tildren-osphos/

In other ringbone news, I had a saddle fitting today and my horse was lame. I thought it was because I didn't ride yesterday but the barn owner reminded me that two days a week I ride him after not riding the previous day and he is sound. So it isn't due to not riding for a day. It was due to being in his stall so many hours to get out of the heat. She remembered that he was lame like this the last time he was in the stall so long. And all this is in keeping with how sound he was even on 15-m circles when he was out 24/7 in the herd.

So I had to get over the embarrassment with the saddle fitter and hope she believed me that he wasn't usually lame LOL.

So my STRONG advice is to keep that horse outside and not in a stall to increase the chances of staying sound. And preferably to be in a herd that moves in a large, hilly area day and night. That's what made my horse sound again.

heddylamar
500 post plus club
Posts: 500
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Ringbone...

Postby heddylamar » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:00 am

Tsavo wrote:There is little to no evidence for either Osphos or Tildren for anything and I would think none for ringbone. Here is a very recent report...

https://www.doctorramey.com/ready-tildren-osphos/


Do you have any references to actual scientific studies?

There's a large scale human study of IV-administered bisphosphonates at University of Nebraska medical center that's getting great results in kids with OI. From what I understand from researchers at Tufts and University of Missouri vet school, there's a large crossover between human and equine physiology.

Tsavo
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1431
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:01 am

Re: Ringbone...

Postby Tsavo » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:17 am

The references to studies are in that blog post.

khall
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1135
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:47 am

Re: Ringbone...

Postby khall » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:21 am

For my mare it was shoeing that helped her stay sound with low ringbone, until it did not. At some point low ringbone will not be able to be maintained and have a comfortable horse. Ease of break over helps. I had a wedge pad with frog support and dental impression material for cushion. She just had low ringbone only on LF. She was just beginning to show consisted lameness at 16 (had radiographic evidence of low ringbone for years) when I lost her to colic. My older mare Gallie (Rip's dam) has had non articular ringbone for years with no issues. She has lost some ROM in her front fetlocks so we do rocker her toes now. Gallie is 23.

User avatar
Fatcat
Herd Member
Posts: 362
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:36 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Ringbone...

Postby Fatcat » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:22 pm

My Arabian was diagnosed with low ringbone on both fronts when he was 13. He was then shod in rolled toe aluminum wide web shoes with rim pads for the rest of his career. He was sound and logged a zillion miles with me on the trails, dressage etc. At 25 I pulled his shoes and he went barefoot w/easyboot epics on the rocky trails for the rest of his life, he also started getting monthly Adequan (it had just come out back then). He was still sound and passed at 29 from colic. I remember being devastated at his diagnosis and thought his days were over, but the wizened vet at the vet teaching hospital told me "this isn't what will put this horse out of business", and he was right.

He was never buted, and previcox came out at the end of his life, but we still didn't need it.
An attitude of gratitude brings opportunites.


Return to “Veterinary, Nutrition, Grooming & Farrier Questions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests