Strange infection

blob
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Strange infection

Postby blob » Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:10 am

I was out of town for a few days. When I came back I noticed MM had a hairless spot near her throatlatch area. She's an itchy horse and often scratches herself bald. So I assumed that was the case--put some ointment on it and didn't think twice.

The next day the area was MUCH larger, angry, and oozing. It was clear now that the hair loss was from the oozing. There was quite a bit of heat and swelling. Temperature was normal. Called the vet out. Vet came and confirmed that it wasn't strangles (whew), gave her an injection of antibiotics and put her on uniprum for 10 days and bute for 2-3.

Today the swelling seems to have spread all along her throatlatch area and down her neck. There is even more hairloss as the area where she has oozed has spread. I emailed pictures to the vet who thinks it is the same swelling just moving down with gravity. MM is still at normal temperature and is eating, drinking, acting normal--bright eyed. She doesn't seem to be in active pain unless I touch the area and even then she has let me clean it out both yesterday and today. But I'm worried.

There doesn't seem to be an acute source for the swelling or infection--no cut that I can see or an point where there might be a foreign object lodged. I can't figure out what would cause this. Has anyone seen anything like this?

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exvet
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Re: Strange infection

Postby exvet » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:09 pm

Pythiosis or swamp infection can look like this. True fungal infections can also take on this appearance though more often starts on the legs.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby blob » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:04 pm

Thanks, Exvet. Will look into pythosis. Updated pics from today... Vet still thinks it's an infected injury, but I don't...

It's spread over to the left side as well. But swelling is much less
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Flight
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Re: Strange infection

Postby Flight » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:09 pm

I have no idea! But it doesn't look nice and hoping you can get on top of it soon. Keep us updated!

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Re: Strange infection

Postby khall » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:06 am

How bizarre. Found any ticks? I hope it's not pythiosis. If so, the vaccine works pretty well and my holistic vet cured a suspected swamp cancer infection with a concoction she made up. Bad infection/swamp cancer on the leg on a rescue horse was going to be euthanized because they could not clear it up.

Jingles MM comes right soon.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby blob » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:48 am

still not at all sure what this is or what caused it...and there is a part of me that worries this is something that might come back/reoccur elsewhere, so I'd love to know what it is definitively. However, on the good news--either the antibiotics, the cleanings, or her body seems to be fighting whatever this thing is off.

Pictures from today below. Swelling is mostly gone and most of the oozing also seems to have stopped. There is still dead skin that is sloughing off, but the pink in these pictures is not angry skin, but rather brand new skin emerging through the mess.

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exvet
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Re: Strange infection

Postby exvet » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:59 am

The only other thing I've deal with that behaved like this was snake bite; but, of course the puncture wounds that finally could be found after the swelling went down gave it away.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby blob » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:46 am

exvet wrote:The only other thing I've deal with that behaved like this was snake bite; but, of course the puncture wounds that finally could be found after the swelling went down gave it away.


Hmm interesting... I'd guess this to be an unlikely place for a snake bite, but definitely possible. Swelling is pretty much completely gone, but there is still enough dead skin and such around that there might still be puncture wounds to uncover. Though there definitely has never really seemed to be an epicenter/acute localized center in a traditional way the way an infected wound or abcess would have.

Whatever it is, is definitely very strange and I've never really seen anything like it.

After reading about it, I also really hope it's not phythiosis. Though I suspect, it would not be starting clearing up like this with antibiotics if it was.

If it continues to look better tomorrow, I'll take her off the bute, but ofcourse stick with the antibiotics.

Topically I've been cleaning it with warm water and unscented castille soap. Patting dry and then spraying with vetricyn and finally putting a thin layer of neosporin. Once I'm sure we're done with oozing I might put desitin on to protect the bare skin. But I'm often on the fence about desitin because I also worry it can cause irritation.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby Chisamba » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:27 am

What about Desitin do you think would cause irritation?

I quite like Calmoseptine. That does tingle a bit. I use it on myself too.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby exvet » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:13 pm

Be careful and cautious what topicals you put on wounds. I have found that the antibiotic ointments (emollients and other similar substrates) - anything in a tube or tub are wonderful media/cultures for bacteria despite their ingredients and purpose. First time use is fine but unless you're using relatively sterile or very clean technique to apply the substance it can cause more harm than good. This is one reason why sprays can appear to be more efficacious.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby Kirby's Keeper » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:04 pm

It looks like an allergic reaction to me. Kirby had such a reaction to tick bites. His reaction was one of the signs of his Cushings which compromised his immune system. It was a huge mess and spread over his whole belly and face. Took lots of antihistamines, steroids and antibiotics to get under control.
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Re: Strange infection

Postby Quelah » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:06 am

exvet wrote:Be careful and cautious what topicals you put on wounds. I have found that the antibiotic ointments (emollients and other similar substrates) - anything in a tube or tub are wonderful media/cultures for bacteria despite their ingredients and purpose. First time use is fine but unless you're using relatively sterile or very clean technique to apply the substance it can cause more harm than good. This is one reason why sprays can appear to be more efficacious.


This made me smile. I have a friend who is a wound care nurse, she has said to me, on more than one occasion, "you horse people with your pots of ointments!" :lol:

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Re: Strange infection

Postby blob » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:11 pm

Chisamba wrote:What about Desitin do you think would cause irritation?


Purely anecdotal--but it irritates my skin! I always get red and itchy after contact.

exvet wrote:Be careful and cautious what topicals you put on wounds. I have found that the antibiotic ointments (emollients and other similar substrates) - anything in a tube or tub are wonderful media/cultures for bacteria despite their ingredients and purpose. First time use is fine but unless you're using relatively sterile or very clean technique to apply the substance it can cause more harm than good. This is one reason why sprays can appear to be more efficacious.


yes, yes dually noted. And I know the horrors of pots of things. The vetricyin is a spray. The ointment and desitin i have are in tubes (probably slightly better than tubs, but maybe not much more). I'll avoid using them.

No updated pictures. But update on condition is that swelling and oozing are finished. There is still dead skin that is falling off--making things still look a bit icky. But the skin underneath is all happy, healthy looking skin. So seems like whatever this is has left the building for the most part. MM has such itchy/problematic skin that I can't help but worry something like this might reoccur. I think this summer, I'll bite the bullet and get one of those sweet itch full body wrappers.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby heddylamar » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:21 pm

blob wrote:yes, yes dually noted. And I know the horrors of pots of things. The vetricyin is a spray. The ointment and desitin i have are in tubes (probably slightly better than tubs, but maybe not much more). I'll avoid using them.


We keep exam gloves on hand for dispensing and applying ointments. They're not sterile, but at least visibly clean.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby Kyra's Mom » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:30 am

It almost looks like a burn or severe rub like maybe she got her neck caught on something? I sure wish they could talk. Glad it seems to be on the mend. The pink skin looks good.

Jingles for continued improvement.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby Kirby's Keeper » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:42 pm

Blob, is MM on antihistamines? Constant itchiness is part of an allergic reaction. Try the antihistamines to see if there is a change in MM's itchiness before investing in the full set of sheets.
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Re: Strange infection

Postby exvet » Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:06 pm

I'm not one to push specific products; but, will comment on two/three items. First Vetricyn is a product I know well (partial disclosure ;)) and the spray delivery system has lessened a number of problems I use to see unintentionally started by a lot of good horse people.

Second, with regards to allergies, the use of specific antihistamines has been suspected of causing certain conditions such as anhydrosis and other issues suspected to be adrenal related. Now having a pony who has severe allergies, to of all things, palo verde trees (most common tree here) and cats, I do understand the frustration and challenges of treating such. This past year is the first in 8 (I've owned stinker for 11 - he's coming 18 can you believe it?) that he has kept all his hide, mane and tail included. I did allergy testing (obviously). Of course I chopped down all the palo verde trees on my land but can't do anything about the neighbors which border my fence line. The barn cat became a house cat and we don't have ferals any where near my property. I did the hypo-sensitization injections for 2.5 years. It was a little help but he still had occasional but severe flare ups and the product became too difficult to get made the way I wanted it after the company/manufacturer changed their 'recipe' due to all their 'internal' wisdom when the company changed hands. I have used antihistamines (tri hist, hydroxyzine, et al) with little efficacy and with the suspected risks decided to stop. I did have to resort to tapering steroid regimens when the flare ups got really bad (usually 3 x's a year but year before last, all summer long). Honestly I was prepared to put him down if this past summer was at all like the previous one. Unfortunately a pony with his dubious history is not one you can send out of state to a forever home though his medical problems would be resolved if he lived on a cat less farm somewhere other than the sonoran desert.

All the while I kept Morgan (aka Stinker) on MSM and flax seed oil which do seem to help. Two products I introduced within the last 18 months that seemed to coincide with his improvement - Platinum Performance Skin and Allergy and Anihist H from Animed. Both products have heavy doses of tumeric and each vary on their additional 'nutritional' additives. I believe the Platinum Performance product to be more effective but used both in the spring and summer when the palo verde trees are in full bloom and seed pods. So there's your non-professional PSA anecdotal information of the day.......FWIW....if you haven't tried the Platinum Performance product it might be worth a try though to be honest I've never and won't ever stop the flax seed & MSM. Maybe Morgan has finally 'grown out of' his allergies?This spring/summer will be the true test. We shall see if we have similar success. I know this winter when I went 4 days without the Platinum Performance product I had a really itchy pony again. Good luck with your allergy kid.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby blob » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:56 pm

Thanks, Exvet, all very useful info.

I have not tried the Platinum products. But I have tried Anihist H without much success. I've also tried MSM, Flax, and a whole host of other things. Currently MM is on MSM and spirulina (which has made the most noticeable difference in her summer allergies, though it's still minor).

My vet has given me apoquel to try this spring. It's meant for dogs, but apparently went through testing for use on horses with good results. I want to do some of my own research and see what more I can find out about it before putting her on it in the spring.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby exvet » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:40 pm

I've prescribed apoquel for dogs. While it does seem to help many with the itching/scratching, it's not without its own set of risks.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby Kirby's Keeper » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:31 pm

Exvet, that is interesting about the link between anhydrosis and antihistamines. I hadn't known this. Kirby has had a few bouts of anhydrosis over the past 2 summers. I thought that it was related to his Cushings but it could be from the anitH. Unfortunately, I can't get rid of the ticks but I might be able to back off the antiH in the high summer when the ticks are fewer. They peak in the spring and then again in the fall. Also, Kirby's immune system seems to have picked back up over the last year. Worth a try. He is also Lyme positive which brings it's own issues such as hypersensitivity, but I can control that with Bowen Therapy.
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Re: Strange infection

Postby Josette » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:40 pm

Blob - I was wondering about a tick bite too in your photos as some horses can be very reactive (my PT/QH would get oozing sores / hair loss). I appreciated reading the replies and always learn something new. I never realized a horse could be allergic to cats - but my TB was allergic to flowering trees in the spring. Regarding Tumeric - I have been using the SmartPak Tumeric pellets as a convenient supplement vs a powder form.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby LeoApp » Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:29 pm

I have a friend who SWEARS BY Platinum Performance!

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Re: Strange infection

Postby lorilu » Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:27 am

Antihistamines and anhydrosis - yes, I had a horse stop sweating when I started her on TriHist......

What about using something drying on that weeping area (don't want to call it a wound?).... something like a zinc oxide paste (equiderma) or a clay product like Coat Defense?

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Re: Strange infection

Postby blob » Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:45 pm

Hmmmm.... Well I'm unfortunately reviving this old thread because it appears we might be having a recurrence of the same/similar thing. This time on her face. I'm not certain yet, will need to see how it looks tomorrow. But there is a bald patch on her face that has showed up overnight--which could just be rubbing given how little hair is on the face, but it also looks like it was oozy and there is definitely heat. I cleaned it off and put vetrycin on it. Hoping it's just a bad rub and not a recurring problem/infection that I can expect yearly.

So odd to have something like this in the winter...

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Re: Strange infection

Postby Hayburner » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:09 pm

Fingers crossed it's not a recurrence!

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Re: Strange infection

Postby Tanga » Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:43 pm

Hm. I have not had issues with the original infection you had, but all three of mine, especially my older mare, have always gone through phases where they have bald spots in the winter, especially after their winter coats are in and before they shed. Some places seem like it cold be rubbing, but others were definitely not. It sort of randomly comes and goes and I never found a real answer.

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Re: Strange infection

Postby lorilu » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:34 am

Did you try the Coat Defense powder?

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Re: Strange infection

Postby blob » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:42 pm

lorilu wrote:Did you try the Coat Defense powder?


I did not! The vet did not want to put anything topical on it since it seemed very much to be caused by an internal infection


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