Joint Maintenance?

Kyra's Mom
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Joint Maintenance?

Postby Kyra's Mom » Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:17 am

Almost 2 years ago, Kyra came up with a small effusion in her right front fetlock. None of us (myself, Straighforward who was riding her at the time, or the vet) could discern any lameness although she did have some heat in that ankle. So, I started her on Legend at the vet's recommendation. Fast forward to now and she hasn't had it for 2 months because neither the vet or I can remember to schedule (vet will drop by when she is in the area and give it with no farm call).
The effusion and heat went out of the fetlock after about 3-4 weeks with no time off. Whether that had anything to do with the Legend of just tincture of time.

Kyra is 19. My barn has pretty crappy rocky footing. I am going to start searching for another barn as none of the footing is going to change. Does anybody do oral 'maintenance' and what do you use?

I was contemplating Equithrive Original and it would be about $80/month once she was loaded vs $137/month for the Legend. I could also ask her about Aqequan as that is IM and I could give that.

TIA,
Susan
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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby blob » Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:15 pm

This is timely since I have just gone through making decisions on this for MM.

here's what I've learned: oral joint supplements aren't very effective. But if you're going to give one, be careful about which one. I did my own research about amounts of various components needed (HA, glucosamine, etc) and had originally picked the smartpack supplement. However both my vet and an equine nutritionist I'm working with told me the the actual elements used in supplements are not created equal. And so IF I'm going to use a joint supplement, I should use one that has research on it's actual product out there and for that cosequin is the gold standard. So I switched to cosequin ASU plus.

But overwhelming the bottom line seems to be, if you can inject--that is always the better option. With adequan they no longer recommend the monthly dose. Instead you do loading dose (7 shots every four days) and then repeat every year or so. Which also makes it a more affordable option over the course of a year than most joint supplements.

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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby exvet » Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:09 pm

I'm right there with Blob based on what I have learned from my equine vet friends/colleagues. I also still adhere to daily MSM for all my boys.

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Chisamba
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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby Chisamba » Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:11 pm

I gave up on oral joint maintenance when nothing helped even in the slightest degree for myself.

I have had some positive results using pentosan on my horses. enough that I have been tempted to try it on myself from time to time.

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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby Srhorselady » Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:29 pm

I gave Adequan on a Maintanance schedule to my senior horses back in the old days and thought it helped. Then I acquired more senior horses and the price became prohibitive. At that time I worked for a veterinary compounding pharmacy and was able to get Pentosan very reasonably. I noticed an improvement on one senior thoroughbred three weeks into the loading dose. His half pass had always been good, but his cross over had improved by three inches! I’ve been giving Pentosan on a monthly basis to my seniors ever since. Just recently I accidentally missed a month and didn’t realize it. One of my three seniors developed some short stridedness and was off on corners. He was due for shoeing and his heels looked long so we thought that might be it. This horse has a history of ligament problems within the hoof (didn’t do an MRI so not sure which one) and we previously injected the coffin bone and gave him most of a year off riding. He also has an old shoulder injury and was roped off of by previous owner as a two year old. However, he has been mostly sound for the last few years with regular light work. He is 23 and definitely NOT a talented dressage horse. :D He prefers cows. His lameness seemed better, but not totally gone with new shoes. Then I realized we’d missed the monthly Pentosan IM injection and we are now back on schedule. His lameness is gone and he is no longer striding short (for him…he’s a quarter horse :D ). Anyway I think the combination of the shoes and pentosan got him back on track. He obviously is arthritic from his previous history and age. He also got some body work. He’s back to moving and acting normal. Conclusion…I never saw any positive results with the orals (I tried Cosequin plus others), but I do believe in the injections.

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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby Hayburner » Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:40 pm

I have been using Equithrive Complete Pellets, the product was recommended by an Equine Lameness Specialist. We started her on it when she had an ankle injury and some other issues in that leg. She was 6 at the time of the injury. She was also on a few other things for bone health/healing for that area.

I guess I could have taken her off it when she healed (7 months) but I opted to keep her on it for preventive measures.

The science/Testing behind it was for the hocks but the vet said it helps overall.

It is pricey, but the Complete has MSM and some other goodies in it

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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby StraightForward » Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:25 pm

blob wrote:And so IF I'm going to use a joint supplement, I should use one that has research on it's actual product out there and for that cosequin is the gold standard. So I switched to cosequin ASU plus.


Interesting anecdata point, but I've had my old dog on a joint supplement with pretty high levels of chondroitin, etc. for a few years, but he was consistently licking/chewing his hock so that I was always fighting a sore there. A few months ago I grabbed some canine Cosequin from CostCo and after about two months on the loading dose, the hock licking has completely stopped. He is still old and creaky (he'll be 16 this fall), but it does seem that the Cosequin might be doing a better job than the other supplement.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby exvet » Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:16 pm

Oral joint supplements in dogs or any monogastric animal that doesn't rely on the fermentation vat that the cecum/colon are in herbivores (has to do with gastric emptying times and absorption in the SI) are going to likely have better results/efficacy if at all. I too have seen positive results with Cosequin DS for dogs (and tell my clients to purchase through amazon or costco since they'll match).

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Chisamba
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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby Chisamba » Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:48 am


Abby Kogler
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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby Abby Kogler » Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:50 pm

MSM and Pentosan for me. And Equine Leg Magic, which I first heard about years ago on UDBB. That product can produce miracles.

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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:24 pm

At this point, I use Pentosan + MSM, glucosamine and chondroitin. There was a period where resveratrol (ex. Equithrive) helped quite a bit.

For an older horse, I'd especially go to injections. I used orals for years as basic help before Emi's late teens. It made her less creaky, easier to warm up.

I will note that there is a 24 yr novice eventing horse in our barn (owned by a 77 year old) who does well with adequan plus some injections of osphos in problem joints.

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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby Ryeissa » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:03 pm

Just a note for dogs- my dog had diabetes and glucosamine (Cosequin) made her sugar super high so we had to stop. Apparently there is a label warning on some websites about testing blood levels regularly. Not sure if it impacts horses since i don't have an IR type horse or feed oral gluc.

For my horse I do adequan 7 shot series 2 times a year. I also do quite a bit of body work each month that I think really helps.

Kyra's Mom
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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby Kyra's Mom » Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:06 pm

Yes, I have to contact the vet and see if we can switch to Adequan. She may be IR...I haven't had her tested but a couple of times when she has gained weight, the fat is in those ominous places (neck and butt). She only gets a cup and a half of Strategy Healthy Edge for to get her California Trace into her and I don't want to have to up that to get more powdered supplements into her. The injectable would be better on that front. I just have to get an Rx from the vet. I like the Cosequin ASU + except for the glucosamine.

Thanks all for your input.

Susan
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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby piedmontfields » Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:24 pm

Sounds like a plan, Susan. On a semi-related note, I'll mention since we have similar-aged mares, it can be worth thinking about adding more routine blood panels (ex. annually/bi-annually) to keep tabs on changing metabolic or other conditions.

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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby Ryeissa » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:26 pm

piedmontfields wrote:Sounds like a plan, Susan. On a semi-related note, I'll mention since we have similar-aged mares, it can be worth thinking about adding more routine blood panels (ex. annually/bi-annually) to keep tabs on changing metabolic or other conditions.

yes I just started doing this since my horse is 17 now.

Kyra's Mom
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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby Kyra's Mom » Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:41 pm

Yes peidmontfields, that is a good idea. I do blood work on the little critters so that would be a good idea for an older horse too.
I threw on 10gm of MSM for now. I am going to research the resveratrol and talk to my vet about switching to Adequan so I can give it (and hopefully REMEMBER to give it :P ).
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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby Chancellor » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:48 am

For me, with Mocha, he was on Adequan which did nothing. When I switched to Pentosan, it made a WORLD of difference.

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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby piedmontfields » Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:12 pm

Chancellor wrote:For me, with Mocha, he was on Adequan which did nothing. When I switched to Pentosan, it made a WORLD of difference.


Yes, it can be an amazing difference when it works. And for some horses it is the opposite. It's good having a few options!

Kyra's Mom
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Re: Joint Maintenance?

Postby Kyra's Mom » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:50 pm

Well, I texted the vet and she said to just watch her. That is it...at this point, I am not really treating any specific problem. The pastern issue resolved within a month of when it appeared and she feels sound to me. The vet believes in Legend but she has gone 3 months without it and I can't tell any difference. So, at this point, I am going to save my money. I did put her back on MSM for kicks and giggles. It is cheap and a fairly small volume so I don't have to feed a bunch extra to get it in her. I personally have tried a bunch 'natural' things for my poor old arthritic, inflamed body and I haven't found anything that did wonders.

Next time I have her out, I will check blood work, especially her insulin and ACTH. I am searching for a new barn with better footing. That will probably help insure soundness as much as anything.

Thanks for the input.

Susan
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