Putting weight on new guy....

[lorilu]

Just finally found my trail horse in of all places Idaho. 13 YO 15 hands Lusitano Gelding, Great mind, but looks pretty rangey..... He needs about 200 pounds I'd say. We are:
1. giving lots of quality hay (O/A, will be moving him to some straight alfalfa)
2. quality feed - just now on a full ration after settling in period (Can't remember which feed - I know a Seminole product, maybe dynasport? )
3. Purina Super Sport amino acid supplement, as suggested by the vet who did the PPE
4. as much turn out as the weather allows
5. 3-4 days a week good ridden work with a dressage focus. He is learning about trusting contact.
6. he has a chiro appointment next week
7. teeth have been checked.

Any additional suggestions? I know when I was young we always turned to Calf Manna to put weight on - thoughts on that?

(and I know it takes time - he has only been here 2 weeks!! Patience Needed!!)

[Fatcat]

Cool calories 100!

Just curious, why are you putting him on straight alfalfa?

[pawsplus]

More hay first and always. Very few horses get enough hay. If fed truly free choice, a horse should go through nearly a bale a day in the wintertime, and should gain weight. Then soaked timothy pellets with ground flax added for calories--at least 1 cup, but can go up to 2 twice a day. Add a vit/min supplement to cover the bases. This is much safer than any grain-based feed.

[StraightForward]

Hey, we have some nice horses here

I've always used rice bran to add weight. That was my contribution when a fellow boarder rescued a BCS 1 walking skeleton many years ago and she gained well, along with unlimited hay. I think she gave her mashes too at the beginning, but obviously you're not in that type of near-death situation.

These days I feed Renew Gold which is rice bran-based, but also has coconut and some probiotics, etc. Not convinced that it's better for putting on weight than regular rice bran pellets since I haven't had to deal with an underweight horse. It's more expensive, so I'd probably do the straight RB and the supplements you're planning in your situation.

Also wouldn't hurt to do a fecal if you haven't already.

[Code3]

I feed Renew Gold to my hard keeper. Great product. My horses also have grass hay in front of them 24/7.

Oh, and, photos please!

[Rocking the Sandbox]

Be careful feeding alfalfa to Iberians . . . there is tons of research out there regarding the metabolic issues and the Iberians.

[texsuze]

Not to get off-thread, but rice bran apparently runs about 24.2% for Non Structural Carbs (NSC); I've always read it is best to provide lowest NSC possible in feeding regimes. And alfalfa hay is nearly lowest of many feed substances in NSC (about 11.5%), but it is high in calcium. I wrack my brain sometimes trying to evaluate what to use when needing to add some calories, but avoid any of the other pitfalls which might precipitate something like a metabolic situation, etc. My gelding is completely retired, so some considerations may be more applicable to horses in work, compared to retirees.

[Tarlo Farm]

Coco Soya Oil. Pure fat calories.

[lorilu]

Thanks all. He is looking better every day. I can't feel his ribs much, so it seems that what he needs is muscle more than just weight. But we all like our horses a bit round, and he is more angular than round - This pic is last week, first ride since he arrived, so just walking. Looks pretty good under saddle.
I was misunderstood about the hay - he will be getting a bit of straight alfalfa mixed in with the O/A he gets now. (He shares a paddock, so the O/A is outside, and alfalfa in the stall). I had not heard about alfalfa and Iberians - I will have to research that. But I know they can be very easy keepers (I also own another Luso and have owned an Andi.)

No comments about Calf Manna? A friend feeds Renew Gold - not sure what I think of it. Her horses were a bit light until their hay was upped significantly (now totally free choice Q/A). And I have not had much luck with the fat calorie supplements.

[pawsplus]

Read the ingredients on the Calf Manna. Wouldn't feed it to my horses. It's best to stick with whole foods--timothy pellets are pure hay, ground flax is plain flax, ground up. Plain oats can be OK in moderation. And, of course, hay, hay, hay. It's the processed feeds and oils that can cause problems. As with human diets, sticking with real food is always best!

[Chisamba]

Do not hurry it, he is not that underweight, allow him to gain weight and muscle naturally, better for his metabolism and better for his disposition.

[Tuddy]

Read the ingredients on the Calf Manna. Wouldn't feed it to my horses. It's best to stick with whole foods--timothy pellets are pure hay, ground flax is plain flax, ground up. Plain oats can be OK in moderation. And, of course, hay, hay, hay. It's the processed feeds and oils that can cause problems. As with human diets, sticking with real food is always best!

Yup, supplementation has its place in the world, I totally agree, but just add it in slowly. I see a lot of people throwing these feeds at horses all at once and they end up with grouchy horses with belly aches.

Lots of hay, some good quality whole grain (oats) to start with some flax to start and then re-adjust in a couple weeks. It shouldn't take him long to gain those 200 lbs on that kind of diet.

Your new horse looks really nice!

[angela9823]

I agree with what others are saying 1) the horse doesn't look 200 lbs under weight - with saddle on. 2) horse looks under muscled, not so much under weight 3) forage - hay 24/7 - easiest and best way to put on weight in my opinion. And I also am one that likes to go with something like timothy pellets, flax, etc..simple and keeps horse's gut functioning nicely as you are adding calories. Handsome horse!

[lorilu]

I agree with what others are saying 1) the horse doesn't look 200 lbs under weight - with saddle on. 2) horse looks under muscled, not so much under weight 3) forage - hay 24/7 - easiest and best way to put on weight in my opinion. And I also am one that likes to go with something like timothy pellets, flax, etc..simple and keeps horse's gut functioning nicely as you are adding calories. Handsome horse!

Yes, as I said in another post, it is mostly muscle that he needs, mostly along back and in haunches (can't tell that from the pic). Vet/chiro was out today and she agrees. Likes our feed program, offered some suggestions for massage to help the muscles develop. (We discovered he does NOT like needles, even the little acupuncture ones....) Fortunately although he has very little muscling down his spine, the dressage saddle and thinline fleece seems to do the trick - back was not sore at all. Currently working lots of long and low at the walk and some trot asking him to push into contact and raise his back. His default is upside down, so it is work for him even at the walk, and he does not really trust the bit and wants to hide from it. (Using a KK with fat bean)

He gets lots of hay as I mentioned above. I for one do not believe that a diet limited to whole grains and hay provide a balanced diet for a working horse. I believe in, and feed, commercial feed (Seminole Wellness products) because they provide all the nutrients horses need in the correct amounts. I have discussed this with an animal nutritionalist (PhD in it, also dressage rider/trainer) and she agrees.

Thanks all.

[lorilu]

Regarding Calf Manna, here are the ingredients:
Ingredients:Soybean meal, corn, hominy feed, feeding oatmeal, dried whey, dehydrated alfalfa meal, linseed meal, brewer’s dried yeast, vegetable oil, fenugreek seed, anise oil, calcium carbonate, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, sulfur, iron oxide, ferrous carbonate, ferrous sulfate, copper oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate, calcium iodate, Vitamin A supplement, Vitamin D3 supplement, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, thiamine mononitrate, niacin supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, biotin.

I know some folks are against soybeans in horses diet. To me, it's just another legume. Otherwise, what are your complaints? Corn (Hominy), Oats, Whey (milk solids), Alfalfa, Linseed, yeast, oil, some herbs and minerals to balance......????

[kande50]

I know some folks are against soybeans in horses diet. To me, it's just another legume. Otherwise, what are your complaints? Corn (Hominy), Oats, Whey (milk solids), Alfalfa, Linseed, yeast, oil, some herbs and minerals to balance......????

I would say that the minerals and other ingredients are likely balanced for calves rather than adult horses, which, if fed is sufficient quantities could unbalance the total ration.

Agree that hay and whole grains are often deficient and need to be supplemented, although the best way to do that is likely by having the ration analyzed and then adding in what is lacking.

An alternative would be to feed local hay plus a ration balancer formulated for the region in which the hay was grown. Or, as you mentioned, a formulated feed with the balancers already added.

[piedmontfields]

My concerns with Calf Manna and a horse who might be prone to being IR (many individuals of Iberian breeds are) would be about the corn, hominy and oats. Both are fairly high sugar carbs (high in NSCs) compared to alfalfa (which is quite low). Some horses are soy sensitive. Not all. Seems to be more of an issue with some mares FWIW.

I would be thinking about adequate protein and Vit E in the diet as you bring this nice boy into work. I look forward to more photos!

[Code3]

Lovely boy!

[Chisamba]

Lorilu, Calf Manna is also labelled for horses, and I have used it in the past to put bloom on a horse, i am not as against it as people seem to be here. it does add protein, yes soybean protein but back in the day we used to add a quarter cup of soybean meal directly to feed, and did not have a problem with it, ( thirty horses, four or five years) each getting a ration of soybean meal.

[pawsplus]

He gets lots of hay as I mentioned above. I for one do not believe that a diet limited to whole grains and hay provide a balanced diet for a working horse. I believe in, and feed, commercial feed (Seminole Wellness products) because they provide all the nutrients horses need in the correct amounts. I have discussed this with an animal nutritionalist (PhD in it, also dressage rider/trainer) and she agrees.

A good vit/min supplement does the same thing without adding NSCs and other stuff horses can't tolerate.

[lorilu]

thanks all. Chisamba, calf manna was the "go to" when I was growing up as well.

Paws, Never knew "horses can't tolerate" NSCs. Thought that was only those with certain metabolic issues. This boy does not seem to have any of those - and I have seen LOTS of pics from the last year or so. Additionally, his feet exrays show no signs of past issues such as laminitis etc.

I'll keep you all in the loop. So far, the last two weeks have really made a difference - although i think most of that improvement was recovery from the long trailer trip. He has been seen by the chiro/acupuncture vet, and def did NOT like the needles - but he had no real big issues that needed addressing.

He's a real gem.

L

[piedmontfields]

We need new photos of your beautiful boy! Glad he is doing well.

[Sunshine2Me]

thanks all. Chisamba, calf manna was the "go to" when I was growing up as well. L

We must be the same age, as it was the same for me growing up. I have used Calf Manna to put weight on a horse in the past. He LOVED it! Seriously, it was like crack to him!

[Dapple Field]

Another oldie here who used calf manna and/or soybean meal to add weight or shine.