Skin Cancer UPDATE! Neck Threadworms!

[Tarlo Farm]

UPDate! He has Neck Threadworms! And I lost the link, but will repost. Nasty nasty things. Off to get a second dose of Ivermecterin. Back later.



Oh, oh...my little old Arab has been losing weight for about a year - so he now weighs what he should weigh - and has obviously been feeling poorly. There was nothing apparently wrong, until today I felt some hard patches on his rump that aren't scaly, and I can't see them or get under them. One is about the size of my palm, one a little smaller, and a couple smaller yet. They are just on his rump.
He's 21, always been spry, just a pasture pet, was a beautiful dark dapple grey in his hey-day, but is now white.

I've been puzzled and concerned; he's had his teeth done, been wormed, seems to always be eating, gets extra grain and as of last week, Coco Soya oil. I've had this nagging thought of cancer for months now, and was just today wondering if there's a blood test for some markers to indicate some internal cancer. Now this.

Anyone have experiences with this?

[Fatcat]

Given that he's a gray, could these be melanomas? They're not the disaster outcome that they are in people. Horses usually die of old age before they cause any problem. My gray horse had one and it was no biggie.

That said I would at least have a CBC blood work done which should show white cell counts which are indicative of cancer.

[Tarlo Farm]

Thanks Fatcat. Calling vet today, will ask for CBC to be done.

[Tarlo Farm]

Nasty things: http://thehorsesback.com/neck-threadworms/

[Hayburner]

How did they test for them?

[Chisamba]

very interesting, i hope you are able to take care of the problem!

[Tarlo Farm]

There is a test (blood?), but disgustingly enough, I can SEE them! He's textbook. Read the symptoms and followup after a worming with Ivermectin in any study. Icky.

[myleetlepony]

Yay for no cancer!

I've had to deal with Oncho...please, please, please keep up with your ivermectin dewormings. According to the two vets that have seen my mare, both said they've seen an increase in our area (previously almost non-existent) in correlation with more and more people moving to fecal tests vs. rotational deworming. After a hideous bout with my mare, and it possibly causing her uveitis, it came out that a few of the horses at my previous barn hadn't been dewormed AT ALL in five years because the fecals were clean. Neckthread worms do not show up on fecals, therefore the larve can be left untreated and transmissible to other horses.

[Josette]

How often are you safely reworming for this infestation? My guy is itchy at times but I figured it was to remove a tick. These pictures are awful especially with eye involvement.

[kande50]

My horse rubbed out a piece of his mane right in the middle of his neck, so I decided to just cut the whole thing off and let him start over again. He's going to look funny when it starts growing out again, but probably not as funny as it looked with that piece rubbed out.

I knew about neck threadworms because a friend of mine has a horse who has them (and rubs out her mane every summer) but mine hadn't had any trouble with excess itching before, and I no longer have any young horses, so I'd been stretching out the deworming.

But I went out yesterday and gave everyone a double dose of ivermectin, and am going to get back on my regular deworming schedule and just hope that they can come up with new dewormers by the time ivermectin becomes ineffective.

[Code3]

The vets are NOT recommending rotational worming because of resistance. There are numerous articles. I would talk to my vet about periodically worming for threadworms before I returned to rotational worming and giving up decals and figuring out what kind of shedder your horse is.

[Tarlo Farm]

NOT rotational worming? What about tapeworms, which is what I used last when he started looking punky. I hadn't wormed for tapeworms in at least a year. Saying just use ivermectin now?

[myleetlepony]

No, not strictly ivermectin, but you may need to be a bit more often with it during the summer months. The flies that carry can travel up to 5 miles, so it's transmittable (I use ivermectin every 6 weeks during fly season).

I don't know if it's a regional thing or what, but most of the people I know around here that pull fecals do not deworm AT ALL, unless the fecal shows a high shedding. I think most vets are not advising that even on fecals, it's still recommended to deworm at least twice per year in the spring and fall. Again, oncho will never show up on a fecal, so until the infestation is symptomatic, you won't know.

There is a theory out there, and my vet has also spoken of this, that resistance is more caused by underdosing than over exposure. Most people underestimate the weight of their horses and deworm only for that weight, therefore allowing the parasites to live and create resistance vs full or slightly overdosing and fully killing them off.

Taking into consideration I board with people who fecal and only deworm off of that, and the fact that my mare is infected and the possibility of her uveitis being caused by it, my vet strongly recommended I deworm rotationally and with dewormers that I can safely overdose with. I give a full tube, even though my horse has weighed around 1000# most of her life (verified by clinic scales).

[Code3]

Here it is advised, even with a negative fecal, to worm twice a year with Equimax or Quest Plus.

[Tarlo Farm]

Underdosing creating resistance certainly makes sense, the same as not finishing your antibiotic regime can leave behind bacteria that is now stronger. I was a little worried about giving him a second dose due to his feeling poorly and that he's not a big guy - I've always dialed tubes to about 750 pounds - but he handled it just fine.

[redsoxluvr]

Yay for no cancer!

I've had to deal with Oncho...please, please, please keep up with your ivermectin dewormings. According to the two vets that have seen my mare, both said they've seen an increase in our area (previously almost non-existent) in correlation with more and more people moving to fecal tests vs. rotational deworming. After a hideous bout with my mare, and it possibly causing her uveitis, it came out that a few of the horses at my previous barn hadn't been dewormed AT ALL in five years because the fecals were clean. Neckthread worms do not show up on fecals, therefore the larve can be left untreated and transmissible to other horses.

How do worms impact uveitis? My beloved Mr. Perfect has chronic uveitis and none of the vets have ever mentioned that worms could be related.

(No snark genuinely intended. We have been medicating him multiple times daily for going on 6 weeks and I think this is the third or fourth go round. Am absolutely willing to consider all causes at this point as the vets are baffled as to what is causing it.)

[myleetlepony]

The microfilaria can migrate to the eye. Microfilaria are killed off while migrating by ivermectin, that's why it's important to kill them at that stage. I'm not sure if they stayed in the eye long enough if they would be visible without instruments or not.

http://www.equinews.com/article/equine- ... -treatment

RSL, asking out of genuine curiosity, what is your deworming program currently? Have you had your horse checked for lepto?

[angela9823]

There was an article a LONG time ago in The Horse that said worms didn't have to migrate to the eye to cause Uveitis. When killing heavy loads of wormers with dewormers, there was the chance that it would cause circulation issues that would impact the eye - permanently. We see circulation issues when killing heartworms with dogs. This is why some vets recommend slow kill off with ivemectrin versus all at once with older dogs. The article was at least 15 years ago though. I only remember it because I had an Appaloosa at the time that was thought to have Uveitis and the article came out.

[Abby Kogler]

IME uveitis is very connected to an oncho infestation.

Remember that ivermectin does not kill tapes. Tape infestations have actually increased dramatically since many people are on an ivermec only protocol. The protocol for tapes as also changed; it used to be one tube pyrantal pamoate two days in a row...now it is two tubes two days in a row; still recommended at least in this area August and Jan.

I always give a whole tube of ivermec regardless of how the horse is. I also have a couple of oncho horses. I became interested and convinced when one of the boys came to us with this chronically runny eye thing that they said was an allergy; he also had two round scaly patches on his hip that would flare in the spring. Just for the heck of it I did the oncho protocol and =8-0 what do you know...the eyes cleared up and the patches went away. A few weeks later his eyes started getting a little runny again; did it again and poof. Since then I always look for oncho symptoms...hard spots along the crest, itchy spots that don't go away on the midline, and runny eyes. A friend had a freisian with chronic eye problems; that poor horse went through every eye med, every med protocol, he was losing his sight and the specialist also was baffled. I talked to her about the oncho thing and we went ahead and did it without telling the doc. Sure enough. It was amazing. After the horse cleared up we told him. He was both dismissive and interested. I see him once in a while and he tells me that he now recommends the oncho protocol in addition to the regular efforts.

Good luck! You do have to keep at it! It doesn't kill the adults, which can live ten to fifteen years apparently. So you may have to do it a lot. I give omeprazole and pre and probiotics with it every time, figure it cant hurt.

[myleetlepony]

angela, yes, there can be issues with large die-offs, but that would likely be more of an issue with a neglect type case. For whatever reason, oncho microfilaria intentionally head to the eye.

Abby, what is your "oncho" protocol? Two years ago, the vet (a fill-in while my regular vet was deployed) advised two tubes on consecutive days, once a week for a month. It seemed to knock it down after that, and then my regular vet recommended one full tube every six-eight weeks during the fly season. That has made a significant impact, but I still get minor spots (had three this year), and her eye still weeps. Luckily, I have not had another uveitis flare up since almost 3 years ago.

[Tarlo Farm]

I'm reading through these thinking, "This is insane!" I've owned horses over 50 years and never heard of this and these!

[myleetlepony]

Tarlo, from what I understand, it was largely eradicated with the introduction of ivermectin and kept nearly non-existant with ivermectin regularly part of rotation. It's only started coming back with widespread use of fecals and minimal or no deworming.

I personally do not agree with taking horses off rotations and going to fecals in boarding situations. I can understand and have done it with isolated horses but I think of it being similar to the "no vaccine" movement. I wish vets would educate clients more on determining correct weight and proper dosing to kill the entire parasite load.

[Tarlo Farm]

When I first started in horses, you wormed twice a year, and the vet did it by tubing. Period.

[kande50]

I'm reading through these thinking, "This is insane!" I've owned horses over 50 years and never heard of this and these!

Don't you remember when ivermectin first came out and you used it for the first time and most horses' midlines, and sometimes their entire underneck swelled up from the die off?

[Tarlo Farm]

Nope. Never happened to any horses I knew.

[redsoxluvr]

Thanks for the 411. The vet was out last night for his checkup and she didn't think that this is worm related. Mr. Perfect did have a dermoid tumor removed from his eye about 18 months ago and my gut tells me that it was the catalyst of all this. He never had problems before this. He is now officially on the taper off from his eye meds, and we decided that if he has another flare that he is going to the opthamologist. It's just too chronic at this point for this to be managed by the vet any more.

[Abby Kogler]

Most vets IME will dismiss it >;-> I don't blame them; they deal with But I Read It On The Internet Syndrome all day every day. The ivermect protocol wont hurt him, and if it is a factor, it will help.

I follow the 2 tubes ivermec two consecutive days. There is some feeling that the Equimax? there is another one that some people think works best but for me ivermec has worked fine.

[myleetlepony]

Yes, on the mega thread about this on TOB, people felt that Equimax worked better than straight ivermectin. I'm just really cautious with anything other than the old "standbys" as my mare had a really bad reaction to Quest when it first came out. I also think the newer dewormers have less margin for overdosing, creating problems if you figure the weight incorrectly.

[kande50]

Nope. Never happened to any horses I knew.

It was rampant around here when people first started using it. In fact, the warning is still on the package insert, which must be for horses who don't get dewormed often enough, because we only saw the reaction the first time we used ivermectin and haven't seen it since. Haven't seen a bot egg since we started using ivermectin, either.

"Information for Horse Owners:
Swelling and itching reactions after treatment have occurred in horses carrying heavy infections of neck threadworm microfilariae (Onchocerca sp.). These reactions were most likely the result of microfilariae dying in large numbers. Symptomatic treatment may be advisable. Consult your veterinarian should any such reactions occur. "

[calvin]

I understand from our vet that neck threadworms can be hosted by donkeys. Accordingly, before Ivermectin, a recommendation was that donkeys and horses not be pastured together. I guess the lesson is that the long eared ones also need Ivermevtin.

[kande50]

I understand from our vet that neck threadworms can be hosted by donkeys. Accordingly, before Ivermectin, a recommendation was that donkeys and horses not be pastured together. I guess the lesson is that the long eared ones also need Ivermevtin.

I thought the problem there was lungworm, although I can't understand why anyone would deworm their horses and not deworm their donkeys, too?