Frustrated ! No Walk

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Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Hayburner » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:08 pm

I'm kind of venting here - but, I also am looking for suggestions.

I cannot get my mare to walk more than a half of a 20 meter circle, before she either goes to trot or gives me the jiggy walk. She just wants to GO......She's not a nasty horse - but, she wants to make the decisions. I could write this off to my lack of riding experience, but I have had a pro trainer working with her and she does the same with him. I hate having to take strong contact, but if you give even just to take up slipped reins, off she goes. When I do allow her to trot - it's a nice pace - for maybe 1 20 meter circle - then she speeds up. She speeds up when you change anything as in direction.

There are times that I feel it gets ugly - I have to really take on the reins and hold them with very tight fists before she will give and that's after we fight a little and then 1/2 circle we are at it again. She's not responding to half halts as well as she should - I have to sit deeper and back to get her to slow down her pace.

I had her saddle checked it was fine - had body work done - nothing unusual- nothing sore. I then changed her bit from a loose ring to a eggbutt that was a bit thinner but still had the French link. I am having the saddle fitter out again next week and will also have her bridle checked to see if it's too tight somewhere.

I'm so frustrated, I just want a nice ride and I can't seem to get it. As soon as I get on - she wants to GO. We start off with me holding her back. The trainer said she is not an easy horse to ride and you have to be on guard always - no loose reins for her and little to NO give. Only a slight loosing of my fingers.

I don't know where to go from here....it's almost like she's tense for no reason. When the trainer was riding her she would jig in place and sweat - with me she's not doing that - but, she's not giving me a nice walk either. She has never been mistreated and no amount of good girl seems to make a difference.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby StraightForward » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:57 pm

I would try doing frequent changes of bend, either shallow loops all the way down the arena, or changing true bend to counter bend every 1/4 on the circle, adding a smaller volte here and there. That will hopefully get herore relaxed in her body and make it harder to stiffen and trot off.

The other thing might try is trotting off in a forward trot before she decides to herself, then asking for a down transition, and trotting off again (might need the walk volte or changes of bend in the walk so she doesn't just shoot off again). This is evasion of your aids, so she needs to start listening to your seat and leg and stay in the gait that is indicated. If she wants to trot, work on getting I'm charge of the trot tempo, bring it forward and back, gave her leg yield etc. So she is still having to comply with your aids and doesn't think she is getting away with running out from under the.

What has your trainer tried to get her to stop this?
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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby musical comedy » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:04 pm

As I recall, this is the horse you bought that was pregnant? A pre? What was she like before having the foal, and what was she like after delivering the foal? I mean, is this a new behavior?

Have you lunged her and does she maintain a rhythm in the walk and trot then?

I do not think this is anything related to tack. It's tensness/worry/anxiety. Doesn't really have to be a good reason; just some horses' nature. Or...if she was always like this, maybe she never had a good training foundation.

I sort of disagree with SF's suggestions, although without really seeing you and the horse, it's hard to assess. I would not be doing all sorts of transitions and different turns. I would be trying to do slow relaxing work. The more transitions etc, you do on a nervous horse, the more nervous it becomes in my experience.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Josette » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:35 pm

I have to agree to focus on relaxing work versus lots of transitions which may make her more anxious. You have to work with her mind and get through to her to relax and wait for your direction. Many years ago I had an Arab very much like you describe. For what it's worth - he was an amazing trail endurance horse. (No surprise considering the breed LOL. Dressage was not his thing....)

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Ponichiwa » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:42 pm

My advice is to find the exercise that your horse finds relaxing, and use that until you can get her ready for a walk break. My pony's Xanax exercise was a ribbon-candy serpentine in the trot. They'd start tense and tight but by the time we'd made it up and down the arena twice she was in a much better spot to actually take a break and walk on a loose rein for a bit.

Also, how are you breathing when she's walking? I had a trainer recommend singing on tense horses-- it forces you to breathe in a regular cadence and with some depth instead of taking tight or shallow breaths. Tense horses are really sensitive to that level of body language.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby musical comedy » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:04 pm

Ok, now I've refreshed my memory on this horse (aka stalking by some :D ). She had only a couple months under saddle when you bought her. Then you found out she was pregnant. Was she also the horse that was injured and stalled for a long while (or did I confuse her with another)? Anyway, these details are important in the whole scheme of things. You basically have a green horse. I have no idea how good your trainer is or how you ride, but maybe the situation calls for some consistent pro training for a while. The jigging/sweating with the trainer would concern me. I might try to find a hunter trainer that works with young horses. They are usually soft and not trying to put horses in a frame, etc.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby piedmontfields » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:15 pm

I'm no expert, but speed evasions (which is what speeding up or slowing down at any gait is) are one of the normal kinds of evasions horses offer. So, lots of people deal with this and it can improve. Your mare does sound pretty green. If she really isn't progressing with the trainer, I would look at other options for support. I understand that you might be hoping for "just a nice ride" now, but training often involves doing what's necessary/what will help learning vs. a nice time (alas!).

Em really didn't walk when I got her. She pranced. I took the Ponichiwa approach, where I didn't do much walk at the start of a ride until I thought she was ready for a break. For her, changes of direction in trot were helpful for relaxation. Then we practiced our walking in small doses. As she improved, I was able to add walk on contact with a little lateral work (SF, then SI, LY, squares) to keep her walk clean. While we worked in quite small doses, her walk was really was quite different in just a few months. I also found walking up and down hills gave her a chance to realize that walk was something that could be done slowly and deliberately (I think I snuck in walking on contact during the hill work, since she needed the support/organization of the reins).

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Ponichiwa » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:47 pm

I reread this post and realized I had more to say...

Image


Hayburner wrote:She speeds up when you change anything as in direction.


Kiwi did this when she was a young horse. This is the curse of the overachievers. They get protective of their balance or outline and offer you more than what you ask for when you ask for a change in direction.

So, the onus is on the rider to give a steady metronome as you ask for different things (change in direction, change in bend, change in contact, what have you). I really like ribbon-candy serpentines for this because you are teaching your horse that regardless of where they're going, every step is the same-- and that they'll be asked for repeatable, predictable, not earth-shattering changes.

It's easier to say than to do, but do not react to the increase in speed. Keep your posting tempo the same, keep the exercise the same, keep your breathing the same, and continue to ask for quiet trot loops. Keep a nice draped leg on your horse as well-- riding too defensively or with your leg off (which is a very natural reaction to a self-powered horse) can cause you training problems down the road. I know, I've been there, and learn from my mistakes.

There's a trainer that comes to your neck of the woods on a monthly-ish basis, Kathleen Cronk, who is really good with helping riders improve horses like this. She helped me and Kiwi loads when I was still living in the Pittsburgh area. Let me know if you want her contact info.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby heddylamar » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:11 pm

It sounds like your horse is jigging because of anxiety and tension, and hanging on to her mouth is doing absolutely nothing to ease her worries.

I've owned and ridden many jiggers, and am one of those people who needs processes, so I break it down into three steps: relax myself (and hopefully the horse), change the conversation, and try again. That plays out as a half halt (for myself this is more of a yoga om) and give your mare time to respond. If she continues jigging, change what you're asking for her to do at the walk — over-bend on small circles, zig zag, haunches-in/out (think of it as forced relaxation :D). Once she's taking relaxed steps, walk straight again. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

The draped leg and tempo control are huge — don't take your legs off, and ask for a marching walk.

Ponichiwa's trainer sounds promising.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Dresseur » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:00 pm

Hayburner, this one is difficult and frustrating. There is good advice here, but since none of us know your mare or have seen her go, diagnosing things is near impossible, so take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt and if it doesn't make sense to apply it, don't.

Does she go the second that you get on? If so, you can start right from there as long as it doesn't upset her. On antsy horses that tolerate it, I use a helper to stand by the head and I use sugar cubes to gradually increase the time they spend standing there. It will start as a few seconds and then you can work up to a longer time.

In the walk, I do go loose rein, and the second that she breaks into a trot I bring the horse around for a one rein halt (if halting is an issue, I just walk that very small circle). It's a non-confrontational way to break up the diagonal pairs and get her walking again. I also comb the reins a lot just so that they aren't anticipating picking up the reins and going immediately.

Once I make headway there, I will use a bit of shoulder in or shoulder fore to relax the walk. It's important that you stay relaxed, don't snatch at her mouth or try to hold her back with your hands. It takes forever and a half, but through repetition, you can teach her to relax.

In trot. It is imperative that you are relatively firm in your body in holding the rhythm. If she speeds up, you can slow your posting down, even if it's out of rhythm with her and ask for a circle. Most horses will seek to match the rider's rhythm as long as the rider isn't a complete wet noodle in the posting.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby StraightForward » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:31 pm

musical comedy wrote:I sort of disagree with SF's suggestions, although without really seeing you and the horse, it's hard to assess. I would not be doing all sorts of transitions and different turns. I would be trying to do slow relaxing work. The more transitions etc, you do on a nervous horse, the more nervous it becomes in my experience.


To clarify, I wouldn't be doing rapid-fire transitions, but I think it's important to understand the horse's pattern and break the cycle by moving her up at the rider's cue. Now that it's come to light that this is a fairly green horse, I'd probably focus more on the turning, similar to Ponichiwa's ribbon candy exercise, and walking voltes. When jigging into trot starts, it's accompanied by a tight back, inverted posture and tight rib cage, which all happen with the horse is on the straight line, with the hind legs trailing out. Small changes of bend and circling keep the tightness from happening, and the rider initiating the trot will hopefully keep the horse more supple in the back with the legs stepping under. IME, developing a swinging, ground-covering trot in a longer frame is relaxing for a lot of horses (think of a stock horse Hunter Under Saddle way of going). This horse is too green for within-trot transitions it sounds like, so I'd just focus on developing a swinging trot, maybe alternating straight with 20 m circles, and then coming back to walk when some relaxation is felt, but staying vigilant for stiffening, and arresting it with the turning in walk, and hopefully going back to trot before jigging happens again.

This is not easy and it might require a different rider, I'm not going to lie to you. It will work best if whoever is onboard is fit enough to post the trot very evenly for however long it takes, and to stay totally balanced and not be ruffled or frustrated.

I also wonder if some in-hand work might help this horse - namely teaching her to reach forward/downward to the bit and relax the jaw, and also doing some bending/stepping under, which can help them feel more secure in the balance.
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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Abby Kogler » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:45 pm

Some good suggestions here but none of us can really say since we aren't there.

Support things I would do: make sure she always has a full stomach when you ride. Put her on omeprazole for a month and see if that helps. Put her on Succeed.

She may just not be strong enough to walk quietly with you or a body on her back. She may feel she needs to speed up to keep her balance.

She could be sore in many ways that will not show up in a vet exam...cartilage inflammation is really painful and almost impossible to diagnose. Have you put her on Equioxx to see if that changes the equation at all?

Can you get the Masterson book and try some of his work on her?

Do you have a good dentist? Have you done any work other than chiro?

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Hayburner » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:41 pm

First Thank you for all the replies and suggestions. I'll answer what I can

MusicalComedy - Yes, it's the same horse and yes she's a PRE. I rode her many times before I bought her and she was quiet and would walk and trot nicely, tho still green since she was only under saddle 5 months. I only bought her because she was easy for me to ride.
After the foal was when everything changed. She got quick and sassy. I took 5 lessons a week and mainly it was circles, circles to slow her down and it didn't help. Lunging her only increasing her quickness - it's a game to her. Then the injury and 8 months off. Have/Had an excellent young (hunter) horse trainer slowly start her back into work and to get miles on her, teach her to canter without dive bombing in to it. He says her canter is her best gait. He also said, she's not an easy ride, you have to always be on guard or she takes over. Trainer wasn't working on putting her in a frame just getting her safe enough for me to ride and to teach her to slow down.

She's not naughty, but she does get fussy when I try and get her to frame and accept/keep the bit and contact.

The trainer decided if she wants to go, let go hoping she would "get" that she doesn't have go all the time. Well, she went and went - full bore canter for what seemed like forever and she never tired or quit. She doesn't seem to have a breaking point. She never bucked or did anything bad, but she didn't want to quit either. Months later he did it again at the trot, he gave her the reins at the trot but same thing she'd go and go.

Dresseur - Yes, she goes the second I get one - so I take full contact and beg her to walk, I give her good girls when she walks - I talk to her as we are going along. I really don't post much on her - sitting seems to work better for me when she gets "busy" I can sit deeper. When I post and we get to a bend or turn in the circle she gets quick. I'll sit a couple of strides to get her back and then a few strides later off she goes.

I don't know how to do SI or SF - I did do SI when I first got her - but, in all honesty it was with my trainer telling me the aids and I forget how to do it.

The trainer had/has the same issues that I do with her and he is an excellent rider, he can stay balanced, unaffected by her antics and doesn't get frustrated - he rides through it but has to get strong to get her back. Once she realizes she cant' keep going with her nose in the air she will come back down to a nice trot again. But, it doesn't last.

I know my inexperience and sometimes frustration and anxiety doesn't help, but when a pro has the same issues I have - I'm not the entire problem, LOL..

Ponichiwas - What Is a ribbon-candy serpentine? and Yes, I don't use my legs enough. I guess I don't since she goes and doesn't need leg to make her go. Feel free to pass on Kathleen's contact info.

Straightforward - I have been doing a little bit of relaxing her jaw with and without the bit in. I just started doing this.

Abby - Oh, she's definitely strong enough - maybe too strong. I have had Masterson body work done on her 3 times and she loves it. Dentist was used in late Oct. I don't think this is pain related, I think it's "mare" related, she's an over achiever and yet a bit of a worrier.

I really don't want to give up as she can be so sweet - but, there are days I dread getting on or I get off early in my ride out of frustration. She is not a horse that you can get tough with - she's very sensitive. Probably too sensitive.

I am going to try some of these suggestions and see what happens - maybe something will work - maybe I will find what relaxes her, right now, I have no idea. This is not fun and I thought it would be when I bought her.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Chisamba » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:33 pm

my way of dealing with a rusher is not dressage at all, its old fashioned stock horse, or western ranch horse riding, I had a horse come in to training that would literally gallop on the spot, quick canter steps but could do so on the spot, barely moving forward, a horse in slow walk gained more ground that she did.

First off I do believe hormones are involved, if your mare is calmer in the winter, it might be a sign.

anyway, i train every horse i own one non traditional non dressage move. It is what is commonly called a one rein stop on the horse. i start on the ground, teach the one rein stop in both directions. Then when i get on, i like a horse to stand still on a lose rein when i mount, so often this lesson begins right next to the mounting block. I will do a one rein stop, if it moves its feet again, i repeat. once the horse will stand completely still on a loose rein. i give plenty of reward, usually even have a sugar in my glove, and touch the shoulder and reward the horse with sugar.

once the horse has learned to stand on a loose rein, teaching it to walk quietly on the loose rein is simply the next step. literally.

anyway, i was bolted with a horse once, it nearly killed me, and once that had happened just once, i gave up the whole breath, seat, rein, etc i understood that in certain circumstances the thing i need most it to be able to stop the horse. So the person i learned from was australian. but it is used extensively in the USA too, i think if you google it, you will probably find multiple people with video teaching it. I'm sharing this with you because its in english tack and does it step wise, https://youtu.be/3BWm2sz52sc just a suggestion, many might not like it, but it has worked probably the one time Deneb is completely safe is when she is standing still, lol.

anyway, a quite walk is a priority with my horses, and i believe stopping a bolt with one rein has got me out of trouble quite a few times. Ingrid Kimke does not use it, and the video of her jumping off her panicked horse and letting it bolt home reins and saddle flapping made me glad that i am not completely traditional.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby PhoenixRising » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:50 pm

I'm gong to second Chisamba's one rein stop. Non-traditional yes, but it's saved me many times.
I've found when practiced enough, it can also be a calm-down tool for an anxious horse.
When I was starting horses a few years ago (mostly trail riding horses) my focus was safety. This was probably the most fundamental thing I taught them, because if they had a good solid one-rein-stop I could handle just about anything. Because of it I'd have babies trail riding in 2-3 weeks.

I've also used it to help teach horses to remain in the pace you ask for. More western-style definitely but I have in the past walked the horses on a loose rein, if they speed up on their own I let them "commit to the mistake" or rather get a few good steps in and then one rein stop. Pretty soon they start thinking about what they're doing and if they really want to take off trotting. IMO used correctly it can encourage relaxation and "critical thinking" in the horse.
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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Dresseur » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:56 pm

Yes, that's also what I was reco'ing.. it works wonders.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Flight » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:28 am

I did a lot of 'horsemanship' training with my big horse because he was so reactive and I thought he would eventually kill or injure me. The one rein stop thing is worth looking into, but it's not just about pulling them around to the stop, it's about them learning to bend and relax.
So when they speed up, instead of pulling on the reins or trying to hold them, you just bend them around to a stop and eventually (with the training I did), they check themselves and learn to stay at the same speed. You train this on a loose rein.
It was a longish learning process for me, so too hard to explain through a forum, but well worth going to a good trainer and learning it.

Here's an example, I haven't done any 'active' training in this for quite a while now and you can see how quickly Norsey comes 'back down' after his fright. He had to learn how to do this. My other horse, who I haven't done this training with got a similar fright ( I think I put some vid in another thread) and has a much bigger spook and doesn't relax back anywhere near as quickly.

https://youtu.be/hSTA8fWMCZQ

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby khall » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:21 am

Hayburner when I rode very sensitive PREs in Spain, the trainer there had me keep my leg hugged onto the horse the entire ride. Not tight, not harsh but definitely THERE.

I would be doing in hand with the horse to teach her about appropriate response to the bit and how to release and relax her neck and then move on to lateral work in hand. Start from the ground up and educate her. Remember in NH they teach the lowering of the head at or below the withers as a calm down cue. In correct dressage work when we appropriately educate the horse to the bridle we teach them to release the TMJ and be mobile in the poll in hand. As we release the jaw we activate the parasympathetic nervous system in the horse, the feel good system.

Nerve fibres of the parasympathetic nervous system arise from the central nervous system. Specific nerves include several cranial nerves, specifically the oculomotor nerve, facial nerve, glossopharyngeal nerve, and vagus nerve. Three spinal nerves in the sacrum (S2-4), commonly referred to as the pelvic splanchnic nerves, also act as parasympathetic nerves. from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasympa ... ous_system

and when we engage the sacrum and also activate the parasympathetic nerves there, that is why correct work is so important to our horses IMO. That starts in hand. Why I am not a fan of one rein stop unless it is a life saving or injury saving measure, not as a training tool. The one rein stop puts the horse on the forehand and hyper flexes the spine (horse cannot engage in this position) and takes their balance away from them. It is scary for a horse to be out of balance. The one rein stop does take the engine away (the HQs) with the DISengaging of the movement.

My 2 cents Oh BTW the sympathetic nervous system resides right under our seats!
Because of its location, the parasympathetic system is commonly referred to as having "craniosacral outflow", which stands in contrast to the sympathetic nervous system, which is said to have "thoracolumbar outflow".
Sympathetic nerves arise from near the middle of the spinal cord in the intermediolateral nucleus of the lateral grey column, beginning at the first thoracic vertebra of the vertebral column and are thought to extend to the second or third lumbar vertebra. again from Wiki.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby kande50 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:34 pm

It kind of comes out of sf, as they're already in position for a one rein stop so when they go it's just a matter of not going with them.

Something else to consider is that calm needs to come first, before any additional training. So if a horse isn't calm on the ground then there's no sense moving on to under saddle, and if they're not calm at the mounting block then they need to stay there until they are. Same with walk, trot, canter, and everything else.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby musical comedy » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:52 pm

kande50 wrote:It kind of comes out of sf, as they're already in position for a one rein stop so when they go it's just a matter of not going with them.

Something else to consider is that calm needs to come first, before any additional training. So if a horse isn't calm on the ground then there's no sense moving on to under saddle, and if they're not calm at the mounting block then they need to stay there until they are. Same with walk, trot, canter, and everything else.
I agree with bolded. Also, I am not pointing specifically to the OP with what I'm about to write. Giving advice to do shoulder-in/shoulder-fore, and various in hand exercises are useful only if the person knows how to do these things. In my view, in order to do a many things, a prerequiste is that the horse understand the outside aids; i.e. going in the outside aids. Otherwise, how can one do a shoulder-fore? And, what good is a shoulder fore if the horse is inverted, not supple, etc. etc. It's best to always consider the ability and/or stage of training of the horse and rider before offering up suggestions.

Sometimes, also, we should accept that the situation is a bad match. Not all things can be worked out, even when the rider is accomplished.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby kande50 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:13 pm

musical comedy wrote: It's best to always consider the ability and/or stage of training of the horse and rider before offering up suggestions.


I think what's useful about suggestions is that it's all information that may come in handy now, or later, either for the op or for someone else. Information has all sorts of uses that may have nothing to do with any expectation that it will be used--for all the reasons you mention and more.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not the op's trainer, so what I offer is more about what I think has worked for me rather then anything I'm trying to impose on her.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby cb06 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:01 pm

I'm not sure exactly what will work but I do agree that the training and skill of the rider makes a difference.
In my experience with a forward, overachiever, what worked were long trot lines of shoulder in and leg yield, shoulder in or counter shoulder in on a circle, spiral in, leg yield out, keep the outside rein connected but do not let them fall out their shoulder, they must stay straight through neck, shoulder and stepping under with the inside Hind. Keep legs on, but not pushing, they must accept your leg. If you are not sure you can maintain position and control, stay on a circle but keep shoulder in.
The premise is that you are using the horses forward energy to make them come over their back and step under. She cannot run off, or through your aids, so easily if she is going sideways. If done correctly, do not underestimate how taxing this can be on the horse. It IS tiring. Be calm and maintain your position, let her find the rhythm. Be patient but don't let her 'escape' the work. I would not even ask for walk until I feel some relaxation in these exercises.

If you are not sure how to do this, a good trainer can help... invaluable really as this is tough for a less experienced rider.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Chisamba » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:57 am

An evasive horse can run sideways as easily as be too forward. It's like teaching another evasion.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby HafDressage » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:59 am

Hayburner - Interesting problem. So, my three suggestions, which will be non-traditional are 1) don't make her walk at first. Get on and go. If that is what she wants, then I would go with it. Burn a little of the hot off and then come back to the walk and work on it later. It's very much like a horse that doesn't want to stretch at first. Don't. Work on other stuff and come back to the stretching when they are loosened up. and 2) once you come back to the walk, walk for days! Like walk and walk and walk and walk if you get jigging, leg yield and then keep walking. I would say if it takes a couple of hours at first, then it takes a couple of hours. Slowly you should be able to alter that behavior by correcting the jigging and just walking a lot. Jigging and not wanting to walk are anticipation of other things, so you have to get to the point where the only thing your horse anticipates is more walking. 3) Once you are walking. Practice some slow walk. So, the horses I've known that get lateral in the walk, the best thing is to majorly slow down the walk. One slow step at a time. This is why you often see super slow collected walks in the GP. Trainers are slowing the walk down to make it cleaner by controlling that hurried tension.

Hopefully this helps and good luck! :)

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Ryeissa » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:42 pm

My horse gets wound up more with galloping, so I had to take everything slow/down a notch.

What I found helps: flexions/ground work where you hold the reins as if you were riding. Make her walk, halt, walk. Then start gradual small circles. It slows the brain down and helps them wait. It also helps you feel things in a new way.

Depending on the stage you are at- my horse needs slow walk work now, almost collected, before extensions, but that isn't something a green horse can manage.

Otherwise a video would help- horses rush for different reasons. Good luck!

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Hayburner » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:20 pm

I thought I posted a reply last week - but, it must have gone in to cyber space!

Lots of great advise from you guys! Thank YOU...I will definitely be trying many of these suggestions....

I do want to let you all know how I get her ready to ride - I am SLOW at getting her groomed and tacked up. When I get to the ring we walk around slowly many, many times as during that time I adjust her girth and walk her to just let her bond a bit with me. We also halt a few times so that I know she can listen to me.

Last week I got on and she was HORRIBLE - she fought me the whole time....I was beyond frustrated so much so that I cried. I love this girl and want it to work out but I don't want to fight her and take that strong hold on the reins. I want to keep a firm contact but not every few steps have to get strong on her. A friend was in the ring and she suggested she walk along side us and maybe that would help her "get" that she's only supposed to walk. She did respond and walked, when she did start to tense I took her to the center of the ring had her stand there and I worked on relaxing her with a calm good girl and petting her neck. Then we would start out again and we had far less arguments. I rode her 4 more days in a row and each day she got better. I was ecstatic! If I saw her tense up - in to the center of the ring we went. By the 4th day after some initial walking I was able to walk her on a loose rein! YIPEEE.......

I missed 2 days of riding her - On Monday I got on and she was not nearly as good as the prior week - but, not horrible. A friend that helps me said: Tomorrow she'll be better. Tuesday - OMG she was HORRIBLE !!! She was a high as a kite - I could not settle her at all. I tried taking her to the center of ring to get her to relax - NOPE - she would not stand still long enough for me to relax her.

My gut says that she's in season. She shows no outward signs of being in season but when she's that horrible - I'm pretty sure that's the reason.

I will be starting her on Regumate - I keep thinking about how calm she was I bought her and she was pregnant - so maybe Regumate will help bring back the horse I originally bought! If after a few months I am still at square one with her - I will have to make a decision on what to do next. I can't have someone babysit me every time I get on her, I can't do battle with her on every ride as I worry that she will only resist more and possibly become dangerous. I admit we are not a match made in heaven but I'm not ready to give up yet either. I realize I'm a green rider and she's a greenish horse and if I didn't see an excellent trainer ride her with much of my same struggles I'd take all the blame for her behavior. If she wants to end up a broodmare, so be it..

.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Hayburner » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:15 pm

Update - Saddle Fitter came out yesterday and did adjust her saddle to the next size up (width) - she also suggested I not use the sheepskin half pad and get a Thinline pad for her. She checked my bridle and it only need a minor adjustment.

The last time I had her fitted (by a different fitter) he said the Frank Baines Elegance I was using was way to wide for her and that it was pinching her. This fitter checked it and said she likes the fit better than my Wintec Isabell. Tho, with adjusting the tree it does fit better and it is more balanced on her. Apparently she has gotten wider in the past year.

I can't wait to ride today so I can see if there is any difference in her Jigging...fingers and toes crossed. Tho, she was jiggy when the trainer was riding her in a western saddle too..

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Tuddy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:26 pm

This is going to sound so far out too lunch, I won't be surprised if all of you snort and roll your eyes at me....

See if you can find a bottle of Omega-Alpha kidney flush and follow the directions until the whole bottle is gone.

https://www.omegaalpha.us/product-categ ... ney-flush/

When Tuddy piled me, the body worker told me he had a sore back - but it wasn't muscle soreness, it was most likely inflamed kidneys. I did the kidney flush, and heat treated his back for a week - I put a Back on Track pad over his back/kidney area and let him stand in the standing stall under a heat lamp over his back for 10-12 minutes a day. He went from a horse who inverted and flinched when you put the pad on for his treatment to a horse who didn't flinch after about 10 days.

I know - weird. It didn't solve all his problems, but at least we were able to help ease the back problem.

Also, considering your mare did just recently have a baby, well, after you build a body in you, your body also needs time to adjust internally when going back to just having to look after itself instead, of looking after 2. Her organs are probably still adjusting to that. I agree with the Regumate for these reasons.

Please keep us posted, I am very interested to see how this works out.

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Hayburner » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:03 pm

Thanks Tuddy - Her back is not sore at all, though who knows maybe something else is bothering her...this mare is so loving and sweet it's amazing how anxious she gets when a rider gets on her.

She had her baby in May of 2016 and she had a good 6 months off after that. When she was started back to work she was quick but not as anxious is she is now. She was more spooky than anxious. Her injury which resulted in 8 months of stall rest was in Jan/Feb of 2017. She was slowly started back at the end of Sept 2017. Trainer rode her the majority of the time, but did take much of Oct off, rode her in Nov and then only a little riding in Dec 2017. Our winter was horrific and trainer did not start her back up until May of this year.

When I read the above it seems she's had little mileage put on her - and I could try to blame her behavior on that but, that shouldn't be a reason for the anxiety, quickness and not wanting to keep consistent contact.

When I read about Deneb and her behavior, luckily my mare is not dangerous, yet......Regumate helped Deneb so I'm hoping for the same type of result!

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Tuddy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:49 pm

Hayburner wrote:Thanks Tuddy - Her back is not sore at all, though who knows maybe something else is bothering her...this mare is so loving and sweet it's amazing how anxious she gets when a rider gets on her.

She had her baby in May of 2016 and she had a good 6 months off after that. When she was started back to work she was quick but not as anxious is she is now. She was more spooky than anxious. Her injury which resulted in 8 months of stall rest was in Jan/Feb of 2017. She was slowly started back at the end of Sept 2017. Trainer rode her the majority of the time, but did take much of Oct off, rode her in Nov and then only a little riding in Dec 2017. Our winter was horrific and trainer did not start her back up until May of this year.

When I read the above it seems she's had little mileage put on her - and I could try to blame her behavior on that but, that shouldn't be a reason for the anxiety, quickness and not wanting to keep consistent contact.

When I read about Deneb and her behavior, luckily my mare is not dangerous, yet......Regumate helped Deneb so I'm hoping for the same type of result!


Ah, I didn't fully understand her history. Now I am even more interested to find out why she is so anxious!

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Re: Frustrated ! No Walk

Postby Hayburner » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:50 am

I rode her tonite with her newly adjusted saddle and winding down from being in season.

She was good, very little initial anxiety and we did have some nice walking. Yes, I still had to remind her we were walking but like last week she didn't resist as much, came back to me quicker and only had to get strong a few times. Tried trotting a bit and she was pretty good when she got quick, I brought her back to walk, by sitting deeper and tKing a bit on the reins. She was relaxed by the end of our short session. I did do quite a bit of changing direction

Hopefully tomorrow she is the same way.

It will interesting to see what happens once we start the Regumate. Maybe I'll have a horse that will be more fun to ride.


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