Riding without Ambiguity

[piedmontfields]

"Ride without ambiguity."

What an interesting statement! A friend shared that her trainer told her this...and she recognized that it has been something she has struggled with at times. I am still mulling over the meaning and practice of riding without ambiguity, but I think it is a huge step for me, too.

What are your thoughts?

[Abby Kogler]

I would imagine it is the song every horse sings. The white noise they must try to figure out must be deafening.

[lorilu]

I would imagine it is the song every horse sings. The white noise they must try to figure out must be deafening.

Love that quote OP!! IMO, Abby, Not just "white noise".... also letting things slide - a sloppy transition not corrected, a flying change one stride behind the aid, not trotting off from a halt, dribbling down to a halt from a trot.... all those things are ambiguous as well..

[piedmontfields]

Yes, I think it is what every horse wants! I just found it such a beautiful and powerful comment.

I know that I have been quite ambiguous with my mare around her health/how she feels (PSSM stuff). Letting that go a bit and just being clear (and then observing her reaction/performance) has been quite productive for us. It doesn't mean I don't listen to her situation---but it does mean I get better data.

[Chisamba]

I have long been an advocate of clear and consistent, I think riding without ambiguity is another way of saying it.

It is not easy. I mean we may think we are consistent, but it is both being consistent and reminding the horse to respond consistently.

For example, only considerable patience and reinforcement will remind the horse that an aid carries the same meaning in the indoor, when spooking, when trail riding, when windy, when fresh, when tired etc. It should always mean the same thing.

We have to be unambiguous both in our action, and in what we accept as a reaction.

[Rosie B]

I love this concept.

I've thought about this a lot over the years, but never in such concise terms.

When you think about it, every movement that we make as riders can be felt by the horse. Any movement that we make that is *not* intended to be an aid requires that the horse learn to tell the difference between aids and non-aids. That's got to be a tough job. The easier we can make it for them to differentiate, the clearer our aids, the less ambiguity.

Great topic piedmont.

[galopp]

The thing is for this to be so there has to be the big three for the rider: correct equitation combined with tact and timing (esp as to half halts). It always comes back to the rider and then their experience and ability to apply knowledge of training exercises/movements to sustain purity of gaits and develop the amplitude/balance/lightness/self carriage.

[Ponichiwa]

Agree with the other comments re: white noise, and the onus on the rider to be clear in their own aids to aid the horse's understanding.

This, though, is the real crux of riding without ambiguity to me:

I have long been an advocate of clear and consistent, I think riding without ambiguity is another way of saying it.

It is not easy. I mean we may think we are consistent, but it is both being consistent and reminding the horse to respond consistently.

For example, only considerable patience and reinforcement will remind the horse that an aid carries the same meaning in the indoor, when spooking, when trail riding, when windy, when fresh, when tired etc. It should always mean the same thing.

We have to be unambiguous both in our action, and in what we accept as a reaction.

It is much kinder to be clear and consistent in requests and expectations than to waffle between coddling and taskmaster. The same is true for interpersonal relationships-- it's healthier to know what the boundaries are and to respect them than it is to yoyo between lovey-dovey and massive arguments.

However, that's a tough thing to put into practice! I think this truly is the stumbling block that prevents riders from progressing beyond 1st/2nd. Getting it right gets you a happier horse (less exposed to frustration of cross-signals), but it's a tough standard to meet.

[Beorn]

My gelding has finally learned that this applies to his relationship with me. No longer can he allow me to slack off in my responses to his requests! He unambiguously lets me know when I am not holding up my end of the deal (namely, myself, without interfering with him). He's got standards for my riding, now, and there are Consequences™ to not applying myself. The bar is high, but only after I've demonstrated that I'm capable of performing at that level, even for a microsecond.



Fair's fair, right? No slouching, no nagging with my legs, no thinking backwards with my hands. Independent seat! Use that back! Consistent contact on the outside rein! Stop whining!

[piedmontfields]

I really like this point from Chisamba:

"We have to be unambiguous both in our action, and in what we accept as a reaction."

Personally, I find it much easier to be consistent in my action than in my interpretation of a reaction! That is really a big thing to work on.

[Ryeissa]

I like what Mary Wanless calls the "signal to noise" ratio.

99% of what I have been doing is quieting and stabilizing my body to allow the aids to be as clear and possible

[piedmontfields]

I know that rider noise is a real concern for folks who are very wiggly/mobile/flexible. This is not my primary challenge--but I am totally paying a ton of attention to how I interpret the mare's reactions.

Frankly, I'm back to embracing reactivity in my horse. I do not want or need a dead head horse. I like a horse who listens and is on their toes to ACT. Great simple, quick ride tonight focused on clear reactions, clear rewards (in an again soggy arena).

[Chisamba]

Another thought is to be quiet. Once my horse gives a response, I use quietness if seat and aids to signal, as it were, that I appreciate the response. How long I can remain quiet in the contact depends on the horse, I do this often because it's my way if saying yes, you did good, this us our goal, before the next input from me.

As for white noise, I think it's a myth. Squeaky stirrups, riding in a rain jacket, etc all contribute to "white noise " which horses and riders are perfectly capable of tuning out. It's like engine noise or tire noise on a car, you acceorbits normal til it changes.

[Ryeissa]

Another thought is to be quiet. Once my horse gives a response, I use quietness if seat and aids to signal, as it were, that I appreciate the response. How long I can remain quiet in the contact depends on the horse, I do this often because it's my way if saying yes, you did good, this us our goal, before the next input from me.

As for white noise, I think it's a myth. Squeaky stirrups, riding in a rain jacket, etc all contribute to "white noise " which horses and riders are perfectly capable of tuning out. It's like engine noise or tire noise on a car, you acceorbits normal til it changes.

its not actual noise, its a metaphor for the way the rider moves and bounces that creates excess stimuli to the horse. We all do it but we don't all realize the extent.

[Chisamba]

Another thought is to be quiet. Once my horse gives a response, I use quietness if seat and aids to signal, as it were, that I appreciate the response. How long I can remain quiet in the contact depends on the horse, I do this often because it's my way if saying yes, you did good, this us our goal, before the next input from me.

As for white noise, I think it's a myth. Squeaky stirrups, riding in a rain jacket, etc all contribute to "white noise " which horses and riders are perfectly capable of tuning out. It's like engine noise or tire noise on a car, you acceorbits normal til it changes.

its not actual noise, its a metaphor for the way the rider moves and bounces that creates excess stimuli to the horse. We all do it but we don't all realize the extent.

Wow, I really must seem stupid if you felt the need to explain that.

Let me put is so simply that even if you think I am a nitwit, you understand what I mean. Horses tune out bouncy seats, moving hands and and repetitive movements that doesnt change in the same way that we might ignore engine noise or tire noise unless it changes to indicate a malfunction . If my truck is humming normally I ignore it, if suddenly goes whup whup whup, something changed and needs attention.

If a rider kicks every stride the horse ignores it until the rider does something significant to indicate it needs attention.

Even if a perfect seat existed, the horse would have to tune out certain motion until something changed to signal significance.

[exvet]

While I agree with what most are saying, I do think there is something being left out. It comes about with the premise of most training whether it be horses, dogs or even kids - be black and white AND BE CONSISTENT. I think all too often it's the lack of consistency that sabotages our riding. Sure we all need to develop independent hands, seat and legs and the core strength to maintain all the independent parts. We need to develop good feel so we can respond or not (as appropriate) to what the horse's reactions are. However what I think is as important is that we do it consistently throughout each and every interaction with the horse. I ride the same way when I'm trail riding (even when gabbing it up with friends on a leisurely ride) and ask the same questions with the same requirements or expectations of the horse's answer as when I'm schooling in the arena. I may not be asking for leg yield across the arena but I do ask for stretchy walks, leg yields, shoulder fore etc and I don't slack nor do I let the horses slack. Horse's, dogs and even kids want it to be fair, same rules every day. If I'm leading my horse to the turn out vs. leading it around the show grounds the conversation, expectations, and reactions are all the same - not over the top, not slacking. This type of consistency often helps develop a calmer and more confident horse at least in my experience. I think it's why I have had more than one well behaved stallion in my midst. Everything from the get go is very clear, very black and white and there are no days off or vacation days ever for either one of us if we are together. With dog training much is the same but there are allowances and times for the dog to 'be free' and just be a dog. I think I give the same allowances to my horse(s) when I turn them out or let them loose in their stalls. Obviously there are times when kids are allowed to 'just be kids' within reason

[Ryeissa]

Another thought is to be quiet. Once my horse gives a response, I use quietness if seat and aids to signal, as it were, that I appreciate the response. How long I can remain quiet in the contact depends on the horse, I do this often because it's my way if saying yes, you did good, this us our goal, before the next input from me.

As for white noise, I think it's a myth. Squeaky stirrups, riding in a rain jacket, etc all contribute to "white noise " which horses and riders are perfectly capable of tuning out. It's like engine noise or tire noise on a car, you acceorbits normal til it changes.

its not actual noise, its a metaphor for the way the rider moves and bounces that creates excess stimuli to the horse. We all do it but we don't all realize the extent.

Wow, I really must seem stupid if you felt the need to explain that.

Let me put is so simply that even if you think I am a nitwit, you understand what I mean. Horses tune out bouncy seats, moving hands and and repetitive movements that doesnt change in the same way that we might ignore engine noise or tire noise unless it changes to indicate a malfunction . If my truck is humming normally I ignore it, if suddenly goes whup whup whup, something changed and needs attention.

If a rider kicks every stride the horse ignores it until the rider does something significant to indicate it needs attention.

Even if a perfect seat existed, the horse would have to tune out certain motion until something changed to signal significance.

I guess I disagree they actually tune it out....

[piedmontfields]

To follow on Exvet's points, I, too, work hard to maintain the same expectations for straightness, gait purity, and forward energy out on the trail or in the field. I'm not sure my less dressage-oriented riding buddies even notice, other than to say "Emi is always so good."

However, I do find it a little tricky to be fair in my assessment of my horse's performance (aka was it "enough") when conditions are variable. On icky footing, on a slope, or on other terrain, I don't ask for the same level of work that I do in good footing. But I still want the same basic reaction in a way. Is that fair? I was thinking about this last night as I worked my mare lightly in the arena after yet more rain. It's a good arena, but can only take so much rain! (we are like 25" over normal for this winter). And I try to adjust my requests to what is fair and safe for the horse (we canter on the well drained parts, not through the puddles, for ex.). Sometimes it is so soggy that walking is the only gait I think is fair.

Just musing here.

[heddylamar]

Given how completely I can tune people out, I can only imagine what my mares are doing with me

[exvet]

I think part of our job is to ask for and expect what is reasonable in every circumstance. It's my job to temper the requests but I believe it's also my job to make sure I'm not changing the ground rules with those requests. So if it's only safe to walk due to footing, I do so but I don't change my expectations or requests if I feel walking in a straight line is a reasonable request. Hopefully that makes sense and is in response to peidmontfields' post.

[mari]

Another thought is to be quiet. Once my horse gives a response, I use quietness if seat and aids to signal, as it were, that I appreciate the response. How long I can remain quiet in the contact depends on the horse, I do this often because it's my way if saying yes, you did good, this us our goal, before the next input from me.

As for white noise, I think it's a myth. Squeaky stirrups, riding in a rain jacket, etc all contribute to "white noise " which horses and riders are perfectly capable of tuning out. It's like engine noise or tire noise on a car, you acceorbits normal til it changes.

its not actual noise, its a metaphor for the way the rider moves and bounces that creates excess stimuli to the horse. We all do it but we don't all realize the extent.

Wow, I really must seem stupid if you felt the need to explain that.

Let me put is so simply that even if you think I am a nitwit, you understand what I mean. Horses tune out bouncy seats, moving hands and and repetitive movements that doesnt change in the same way that we might ignore engine noise or tire noise unless it changes to indicate a malfunction . If my truck is humming normally I ignore it, if suddenly goes whup whup whup, something changed and needs attention.

If a rider kicks every stride the horse ignores it until the rider does something significant to indicate it needs attention.

Even if a perfect seat existed, the horse would have to tune out certain motion until something changed to signal significance.

Completely agree with this. I've seen lovely responsive upper level tests where the rider is bumping her horse with her jiggly ankles every single trot stride, but the transitions and responses to the leg are lovely. Same with hands. So I can only think that the horse is used to the "noise", and not confused at all by what it needs to do.

[piedmontfields]

I think part of our job is to ask for and expect what is reasonable in every circumstance. It's my job to temper the requests but I believe it's also my job to make sure I'm not changing the ground rules with those requests. So if it's only safe to walk due to footing, I do so but I don't change my expectations or requests if I feel walking in a straight line is a reasonable request. Hopefully that makes sense and is in response to peidmontfields' post.

Yes it does! I aspire to that for sure. I think I sometimes second guess myself, though, or change my mind on what is reasonable after experiencing various conditions.

[Ryeissa]

Mary Wanless:
The emphasis on the rider’s hand and lower leg in most riding texts can again be attributed to the homonculus. Despite the enormity of their skill, the old masters had much greater awareness of what they were doing with their extremities than of how they organised their centre. So they missed telling us about the most important ways in which we can communicate with our horses. In fact, they gave us the icing, but not the cake. They also lacked the knowledge to tell us that riding is a dynamic isometric skill, based on the ability to stabilise the body on top of a moving medium. Stability is required before the rider can hope to have influence – otherwise how is the horse to know which wobbles and jerks are supposed to mean anything and which are not? The ‘noise to signal’ ratio is rarely in his favour: we have to cut out the noise in order to send or receive meaningful messages.

[Chisamba]

on the other hand people can ride with paralysed lower limbs which due to lack of neurological ability simply flap every stride like a piece of tack or equipment, and some ride with or no lower limbs at all, women in fact used to ride side saddle with no leg on one side, and some how those horses knew or know what to do. I am not suggesting everyone should, i am just saying that a saddle, a bridle and a rider, once put on a horse have a certain amount of movement and the horse learns to tune out the movement noise and activity that has not been taught to have a consequence. one hopes the consequence is taught positively but its taught nonetheless

like i said, and will say again, any consistent thing can be ignored until there is a significant input. i am not saying it is fair, i believe a quiet seat and quiet hand is something we should all aspire to, but since there are so many levels of riders all achieving a certain level of riding, Mary Wanless is not exactly right is she?

I have actually noticed that a lot of the top riders move their hands a lot in the trot, where the horses head is still, and keep their hands still in the canter, where the horse naturally nods its head. thus disguising their aids as much as possible when riding

[Dresseur]

Chisamba makes excellent points. I think that of course, riding as quietly as we can is the goal. But horses are also able to tune all manner of things out. Again, consistency is the key. If you are consistently flapping without asking for anything - the horse will learn to tune it out and go along their merry way. If you consistently give an aid and mean it, the horse will learn to react to that aid or cue. I do think that the best riders and trainers are those that are able to hold themselves to a standard of ask and mean it, and reward the subtle try and build on that. The reason (IMO) that some of us don't progress as quickly is one, inconsistency in what we ask, and two, not recognizing the smaller tries and rewarding those. In any case... just my 2 cents.

[Ryeissa]

If the riders hands and legs are that unstable, I wager that the core is also unstable.

A horse can possibly tune out somethings but not a seat that is counter-productive and out of balance with the horse/crooked. It will always influence the horse negatively in lateral and longitudinal balance

I'm not so sure my horses would ever really tune out things like this, but horses generally put up with a lot from us riders

Its a bit of a hard discussion to have though, so many factors come in here. This is why things like the training scale help provide us all direction.

Just ran across this image and I'm going to mull it over to see if I agree

[Dresseur]

In general I agree with the chart. I personally wouldn't put contact, straightness and rhythm on this chart as I think that comes from proper development and gymnasticising the horse as opposed to a cue or aid that is taught. And for the hands/legs vs core... I go back to para athletes that have no use of their legs. They use auxillary aids to work on the straightness etc and the horse tunes out the legs.

[Ryeissa]

I feel like I'm probably way too idealistic. Maybe horses do put up with noise, and maybe that really is ok. who knows.