Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Tsavo » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:47 am

khall wrote:Really tsavo? Here is actual video of Uta https://www.facebook.com/pferdia/videos ... EyNzczOTA/
SLIGHTLY too high hand mostly with just the inside hand.


Though it still makes my point, this video is not the best for this discussion because she is stretching the horse down so much.

Pick a video where she is riding more adn stretching less... like this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFxIPsfURq8

Or this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hraoW5bEuUI

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Tsavo » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:47 am

Or this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBDban-Lx2A

Or this though she sometimes has a straight line here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0yjWaxTxs8

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Tsavo » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:59 am

I can't find video of Savoie riding. When I do I will post.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby khall » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:26 pm

You know tsavo I can like Uta G and still think that the broken line is not correct. Again EVERY EVERY ODG and even the newer competition riders say straight line from elbow to mouth, here:
https://dressagetoday.com/instruction/t ... tion-30596
Here: http://www.classicaldressage.co.uk/Alig ... nment.html
This:

You are correct in saying that you need a straight line from the elbow to the bit. Have your elbows slightly bent and relaxed. This prevents your hands from being held too high. A high hand carriage can result in tension in the rider's neck or cause her to depend too much on the hand for security in the saddle instead of depending on the seat and leg

Jane Savoie:
https://practicalhorsemanmag.com/training/horse-on-bit

It is not like I pulled this out of my a$$, this directive in riding is well documented and has been around for centuries. So again the ideal is straight line from elbow to bit period. Do we see not the ideal? Yes, but take a look at Anja Beran who is NOT a competitive rider and where are her hands even in the high collected movements, right where they are supposed to be. So maybe what we are seeing is a bastardization of the carriage of the rider in order to ride the horse competitively.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Tsavo » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:07 pm

I agree everyone says ride with a straight line. My only point is that many elite riders don't do that for some reason.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby musical comedy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:36 pm

Tsavo wrote:I agree everyone says ride with a straight line. My only point is that many elite riders don't do that for some reason.

Classical texts and rules also say ride with heels lower, don't drop your head, straight line shoulder/hip/heel, toes in, etc. etc. Yet, those rules are broken routinely by highly successful riders. If you (g) can follow the rules to a T and continue to progress, then keep doing what your are doing. The problem is that some many of those fixated on equitation don't seem to progress very much. I don't care what someone's equation is so long as the horse is going well and not being made uncomfortable.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Tsavo » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:28 pm

Excellent point, MC.

People can say anything. The proof is in the riding pudding.

There are many departures from party line equitation. I just mention broken line upward because it seems like one of the most frequent departures from the party line among elites.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby musical comedy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:40 pm

Tsavo wrote:Excellent point, MC.

People can say anything. The proof is in the riding pudding.

There are many departures from party line equitation. I just mention broken line upward because it seems like one of the most frequent departures from the party line among elites.
I think that the successful riders with broken line upward have a rather loose rein when it happens. If there is a taut rein that is broken upward, that's where I could see it having detrimental effect. Does that make sense?

In general, the raised hands will have the horse drop lower, but I also believe it has value in reminding a horse to lift up the sternum or a shoulder. I think that's what Dressuer uses it for. Just guessing.

When I look at a photo or video, I look at the horse. I only look at the rider's position if it is so weird that my eye is drawn to it. Such as that lady from California that put in the horrible FEI ride.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Chisamba » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:55 pm

Returning to topic if I may.

Kimba continues to do well when I focus on not only my aid, but how she has assimilated that aid, and communicating it more simply and clearly if she has not. I am employing the same technique in my teaching and riding other horses.

It has been so successful and so enlightening I wish just one person would consider it.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby cb06 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:40 pm

Chisamba wrote:Returning to topic if I may.

Kimba continues to do well when I focus on not only my aid, but how she has assimilated that aid, and communicating it more simply and clearly if she has not. I am employing the same technique in my teaching and riding other horses.

It has been so successful and so enlightening I wish just one person would consider it.



This sounds like a great approach to try. I think sometimes I do not wait long enough for the horse to assimilate the aid or do not communicate the same aid clearly and consistently enough. This kind of riding requires a lot of 'rider' focus (also something I'm not always very good at :oops: ). Will let you know how it goes.... thanks for the topic and idea.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby kande50 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:28 pm

Chisamba wrote:Returning to topic if I may.

Kimba continues to do well when I focus on not only my aid, but how she has assimilated that aid, and communicating it more simply and clearly if she has not. I am employing the same technique in my teaching and riding other horses.

It has been so successful and so enlightening I wish just one person would consider it.


Clicker trainers are pretty much forced to identify the target behavior and decide whether it was achieved or not, because otherwise we have no idea when to click. And I admit that it was hard for me, and is still hard for me sometimes, because it's so tempting to skip all those picky little behaviors and go for the gee whiz stuff instead.

But, I'm convinced that mastering the details is key, because it's the only way that any progress that's made is going to be progress that can be further built upon.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Chisamba » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:44 pm

you know what Kande, you are right, and perhaps that is the one thing that carries forward from clicker training into dressage, identify the target behavior, decide if it has been offered, reward, choose if you need to refine, re establish or can go on.

I only do/did clicker training with horses resting for being unsound or on restricted movement. I have found it is a way to keep the horse engaged, less bored, and other advantages.

Now, in terms of actual communication, i have found that it is not always that the horse does not understand the target behavior, but they associate it with something else, and anticipate the next thing, and the next thing is not always the right thing but sometimes in the right thing. So if it is the right thing, the rider might let it go and only correct that anticipation when it is the wrong thing. that turns out to be inconsistent from the pov of the horse, and so it keeps trying. ( intermittent reward being as addicting as a slot machine) So to avoid Kimba anticipating, i have to ask her to wait for the next instruction, ever single time.

So the target behaviour is did she listen to the communication. Did she listen to what was communicated, not did she do something well.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby kande50 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:08 pm

Chisamba wrote:you know what Kande, you are right, and perhaps that is the one thing that carries forward from clicker training into dressage, identify the target behavior, decide if it has been offered, reward, choose if you need to refine, re establish or can go on.


Exactly.

So to avoid Kimba anticipating, i have to ask her to wait for the next instruction, ever single time.


You've discovered it on your own, but Karen Pryor showed us a video at one of the Clicker Expos in which the subjects (in this case humans) had learned a behavior chain.

What happens in a behavior chain is that the cue for the next behavior reinforces the preceding one, so the trainer doesn't give the next cue until the subject *successfully* performs the previously cued behavior.

What KP showed on the video was how the behaviors in a chain deteriorate when the subject isn't required to wait for the next cue, but is just allowed to go through the chain and is then rewarded at the end.

It was a very illuminating video, which cleared up a lot of the misunderstandings I had about behavior chains.

So much of riding is about cues/aids and behavior chains, and learning how to use them effectively.
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby heddylamar » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:30 pm

Chisamba wrote:Returning to topic if I may.

Kimba continues to do well when I focus on not only my aid, but how she has assimilated that aid, and communicating it more simply and clearly if she has not. I am employing the same technique in my teaching and riding other horses.

It has been so successful and so enlightening I wish just one person would consider it.


A therapist told my husband that communication isn't a one way street. If the audience doesn't receive the intended message, saying the same thing louder isn't particularly effective (although in noisy situations, that is a valid second attempt).

It's a great thought process, both with animals and humans, and I apply it across the board to everything in my life now.

When it's obvious we're not on the same wavelength, I take a step back and respond with patience — "oh, hey, sorry I was unclear" and re-communicate a simplified version of the concept I mangled and/or slowly build on step-by-step.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby DJR » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:39 am

My 4-yr-old Shire/Hano gelding has been in professional training the last two months. He was fairly reactive, so I chose to put him with a trainer who specializes in harness work (as well as riding), and who exposes the horses to pretty much everything. It's been an excellent match for Finn who is a big, powerful boy and was a bit too big for his britches. The trainer is fair, consistent, and progresses in very purposeful, gradual steps to make it win-win for the horse. Finn is BLOSSOMING under his tutelage.

I meant to go up to see how things are going today, but the weather in this part of the world is atrocious this weekend so I stayed home to prepare my farm for the upcoming potentially severe freezing rainstorm that's descending on us for the next 48 hrs. It's a 1-1/2 hr drive each way to where the trainer is.

Instead, he sent me this photo. Finn really seems to be embracing the harness work, and today was his first time out on the roads in the training cart. Here he is going for a trot down the road:
2018Apr13 FinnRoadWorkcrop.jpg
2018Apr13 FinnRoadWorkcrop.jpg (132.15 KiB) Viewed 1884 times


In another 3-4 weeks, the trainer will re-start Finn under saddle. Finn already had three months of u/s work before Xmas, but only got to the point of walking off the lunge line due to his reactivity. I think after this harness work that Finn will have a much healthier & well-rounded approach to his u/s work. Either way, Finn looks so awesome under harness that I'd be happy to continue that with him!
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby demi » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:26 am

I agree DJR, he does look awesome!

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby demi » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:45 am

Chisamba wrote:Returning to topic if I may.

Kimba continues to do well when I focus on not only my aid, but how she has assimilated that aid, and communicating it more simply and clearly if she has not. I am employing the same technique in my teaching and riding other horses.

It has been so successful and so enlightening I wish just one person would consider it.


Good post. I will definitely try it and report back. Ive had the flu since Wednesday and havent been able to ride or even think about riding.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Sue B » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:42 pm

DJR: wonderful picture. Finn is so handsome and looks so confident in his new job.

Chisamba: I rehabbed a horse years ago (Scotty) who needed lots of time to consider the aide before he could get his body to respond to the aide. Tio, current youngster, is similar and I know under a different rider there would have been much more "shouting." I think as we humans mature, we come to realize that sometimes slower is faster and a whisper can be more effective than a shout. Rudy, otoh, is always in a hurry to show what he knows and I spend much of my time trying to slow his incredible brain down so he listens to me instead of making assumptions. Horses are fascinating creatures.

Heddy: I too use what I learned from training horses in every day human interaction to great effect. Maybe not so good in my ability to communicate effectively in the written word, however?

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Kyra's Mom » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:18 am

Well...I got to ride today :mrgreen: . Ok, I am paying for it now (sitting on an ice pack) but at the time, it felt fabulous.

Kyra has funny mouth conformation. She has lots of redundant, flabby cheek tissue. When you put her in a regular jointed bit, she will pull it back off her tongue and chomp away with her molars and in doing that, she pinches the crap out of that flabby cheek tissue. After a couple of rides, her cheeks get sore and then she gets tense, reactive and distracted and who can blame her? So, after many, many trials and credit card shock, I ended up with her in an arched mullen mouth bit. One...the PeeWee, very NOT legal in dressage but I have a Glory mouthpiece Baucher that would be legal IF I were ever to get back to showing. Anyhoo...always on the lookout for the next greatest thing. Neue Shule has an interesting bit that is jointed but it lays on the tongue very differently and also is thin over the tongue so doesn't take up much room. Dressage Extensions put it on their bit trial page so I had to try it. I rather like how she went in it. I put her in long reins last night to try it and thought she was rather "posed" in it rather than reaching for it but in fairness to her, I hadn't long reined her in some time and it could have just been my lack of tact and timing. She did gape a bit at canter...especially right lead which is nothing new but overall had a pretty quiet mouth. When I pulled it there were no signs of pinching so I was anxious to ride her in it today.

She went really well. I probably haven't ridden her a total of 1 hour in 2 plus years but have done hours and hours of groundwork. Nika (Straightforward) has ridden her a bit in that time but nothing in the last year. It was like I have never been off of her 8-) . She had a really nice feel in that bit. I could get her to follow it down and stretch and she felt nice in the hand. Light but a definite connection and contact, no curling that I could discern and no bearing down which she will do if the bit is pinching her. Of course I am doing trying to do a walk only program until my butt is more used to the riding thing. Not to mention my goobered up back but I had to try trot and canter because her fussiness seems to increase with each gait and I had to gauge her reaction to the bit. She felt great. She was straight-ish (which I will take with her state of fitness). She was doing W-C and C-W in a very balanced manner (saves wear and tear on the back and butt to canter out of the walk). I was doing 1/4 turns on the haunches on the square at walk and that was probably the best she has ever done that. I think I did 2 trot circles each way and about 1 1/2 canter circles then went back walking. Our whole "workout" might have been 15 minutes. Even took a spin outside the arena and all she did was flick an ear at the girl that was behind her trailer tack room door and popped out. No pinches when I pulled the bridle. I will try to ride her one more time this week but I think that bit is a keeper.

So hoping I can continue the program. At this point I am going to try riding 2 days per week with hopes of increasing that as my butt adjusts. I felt totally like an old lady getting on and off of her. I hate being this out of shape.

Happy riding all.
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby DJR » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:11 am

It's the middle of the night and I can't sleep. Why? Because of this:

https://instantweather.ca/2018/04/15/tTWdQX-major-ice-storm-becoming-more-likely-for-parts-of-southern-ontario-including-the-gta-on-sunday-strong-wind-gusts-could-lead-to-widespread-power-outages/

We already had a hard Saturday with lots of ice pellets all day. I spent most of Friday and all of Saturday making sure that the farm is as prepared as possible for this ice storm. They just upgraded the risk of this storm and I'm really worried that we're going to be hit hard. I've done all I can to prepare, but I still hate that we're facing this. I (stupidly) do not have a generator for the farm so if we lose power (and I think now I should say "when we lose power), I'm at the mercy of the weather & the ability of Hydro One to catch up to the major power outages that are bound to happen. It's the 80-100 kmh winds that worry me the most with all the ice accretion that will have happened by then.

Ugh. Nevermind being able to ride, this will be "have the troughs been drunk dry yet?" and other horrifying issues that all the ice accretion will cause.
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Flight » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:25 am

I read your previous post the other day too, Kyra's Mum and wanted to say how it must be quite tough for you going through all that stuff with your tailbone and that I like hearing when you get to progress. So glad you had a good ride and that Kyra was good. My friend had a pony with the same problems with her fleshy cheeks and pinching. I think she eventually ended up with the peewee but had the trouble with it not being legal.

Dresseur, enjoying your posts and pics as usual! Thanks again for sharing what you are working out.
Chisamba, what's happening with Deneb?
DJR, cool pic!

Here's some vid of Norsey, I tried to pick an interesting part of our ride. Doing lengthened trot with him, he likes to drop that dinosaur head of his and go all wheelbarrow like with his hind legs out and up behind him, so keeping him together is a bit of work. However, to get him to lengthen is just breathing out, so different to little Ding!
Ding - still getting that responsiveness I need and working on canter piri's. They are difficult because he doesn't 'sit' and I have never ridden them before so it's the blind leading the blind. But he's such a sweetheart and tries hard.

The weather today turned literally from summer to winter. We have no autumn! It was 30+ degrees C for the vid, and today I've got the heater on. But I'm glad to be done with the hot weather.
Oh and this could be one of the last times I ride in my arena! Moving in a few days, so will have a full sized arena but no view like this.
https://youtu.be/--vDFksDE50

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby StraightForward » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:14 pm

Susan, that sounds fabulous. Glad you got your hands on that bit - hopefully Miss Princess continues to approve of it. I noticed someone selling a full cheek version of it on eBay for I think $140, but doubt you want to deal with those pointy things if you don't need to.

DJR, I hope you stay safe and keep power with that storm bearing down!

Flight, Norsey looks great; I love his loose, swingy way of going.

I had a lesson on Friday with my old instructor. She ran long with the previous student, so our warmup was protracted, and Annabelle wasn't really on top of her game by the time we got going, and the canter departs in particular were a mess, and LY was like going through molasses. Somewhat frustrating, because we were then put to work on stuff that, on a regular day, is normally part of our regular repertoire. She's coming back out next weekend, so we'll see if things gel better.

We are also playing with bits a little - A was going in a Myler Level 1 loose ring, but didn't really offer much contact, so I have had her in the Sprenger Novocontact single-jointed bit for the last several weeks, and once she got used to the added weight, that has been the ticket to getting better contact. However, she will tend to bear down on it and rush in the canter, so I'm now holding in my hands the same bit in a double-jointed version, and will give that a try tomorrow. Hopefully it will be the Goldilocks of bits for her.

Yesterday I got a SoloShot video. Since A isn't fully used to the outdoor arena, she was rubber necking a lot, but at least the canter was there. I really need to focus on looking up. While the back/core exercises I've been doing have helped keep me from hunching, I now need to focus on looking up and stretching up in front.

And today is Annabelle's fifth birthday, and almost a year exactly since I bought her. It's going to be almost 70, so she's going to get a bath and braids this afternoon and get some photos taken. She is looking really good, and seems to be thriving in her new barn. Interestingly, she will now leave her food to come to me voluntarily. She even did this when she was out grazing the other day.

A couple of the better stills from yesterday's video session:
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Chisamba » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:28 am

Flight wrote:
Chisamba, what's happening with Deneb?


Here's some vid of Norsey, I tried to pick an interesting part of our ride. Doing lengthened trot with him, he likes to drop that dinosaur head of his and go all wheelbarrow like with his hind legs out and up behind him, so keeping him together is a bit of work. However, to get him to lengthen is just breathing out, so different to little Ding!
Ding - still getting that responsiveness I need and working on canter piri's. They are difficult because he doesn't 'sit' and I have never ridden them before so it's the blind leading the blind. But he's such a sweetheart and tries hard.

The weather today turned literally from summer to winter. We have no autumn! It was 30+ degrees C for the vid, and today I've got the heater on. But I'm glad to be done with the hot weather.
Oh and this could be one of the last times I ride in my arena! Moving in a few days, so will have a full sized arena but no view like this.
https://youtu.be/--vDFksDE50


Flight I didn't realize you were moving. I'm sure I just didn't absorb the information when you gave it. I hope all goes well.

Regarding Deneb, she has developed aggressive behavior. Aggressive toward humans. Thus is new. For all her previous quirks, nastiness was never one of them. She has always seemed to like people and find human contact reassuring.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Flight » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:26 am

Oh that's not good Chisamba. That sounds very strange. I wonder what is going on :(

DJR, hope you are ok - can't say I've ever experienced an ice storm and it doesn't sound nice.

SF - looking good! Nice view from that arena!

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Imperini » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:00 pm

Hope you made it through the ice storm without too much trouble DJR, it was certainly not nice here. I must agree Finn does look awesome!

Dresseur as always your reports are very interesting and bring up good things to think about and/or work on.

Hope that you get whatever might be bothering Deneb sorted out Chisamba.

Norsey is looking good Flight. It seems like Ding and P might be pretty similar as far as work ethic (or desire to go forward at least) so it really gives me encouragement because you two are doing so well.

Things are going well for P and I. Pretty certain I actually did get this quiet but meaningful leg thing figured out even if it took me a while and she's been going really well. Most of my focus has been on that so I haven't really pushed to do much more than basic work with the focus on being forward and responsive while accepting contact so I do worry that once I start asking for more that out of habit I'll revert to my old ways but as long as I really think about what I'm doing hopefully I'll be okay in that regard.

I scheduled a lesson on a horse simulator for next weekend so that should be interesting, quite excited to try it out to be honest. It's one of the ones with sensors all over that simulates all the dressage work. I'm hoping with the sensors it can help pinpoint my specific areas of tension and/or crookedness and then without an actual horse under me and with an instructor focusing totally on my position I'll be able to get some improvements that will translate to my actual rides.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Chisamba » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:30 pm

Flight wrote:Oh that's not good Chisamba. That sounds very strange. I wonder what is going on :(

DJR, hope you are ok - can't say I've ever experienced an ice storm and it doesn't sound nice.

SF - looking good! Nice view from that arena!


I am going to have her looked at for an ovarian granulosa tumor.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby DJR » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:42 pm

All ok here! I also posted this in the "Rain, Rain" thread:

******
This morning was actually the worst in terms of slipperiness, but the footing in all of the horse paddocks was fine as it was only a thin crust over ice pellets so they all sunk in a bit and had traction. Most stayed in their huge shelters (all are 30' x 15' or bigger) in pairs, which has made for heavy mucking-out the past three days (twice a day) but then I know they are warm & dry.

I had to cancel the first half of my work morning because of my skating rink, er, farmyard, but it's still raining and SLOWLY warming up above 0 so once I got out of the farmyard and off my small road, the main roads were wet but bare.

Happily I never lost power. Many did, but I was spared. I'm so grateful because apart from the issue of no power = no well pump, I also have two incubators on the go full of duck & chicken eggs, and I have two brooders with heat lamps on the go with chicks, ducklings, and goslings that are in their first week of life (which means they need heat).

I probably won't be able to ride for another day or two, but the worst is now over with a sunny & warm weekend forecasted to end this week. Yay!
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Moutaineer » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:11 pm

Ugh, That's distressing, Chisamba. I hope you can get it sorted out.

DJR, glad you haven't frozen solid! I highly recommend investing in a generator, it gives great peace of mind. We have a whole-house one that runs off our propane tanks. We haven't had to use it in earnest more than a few times in the last 18 years, but even if things go down for a few hours, it's still good to have.

I'm back from a very nice vacation with the family, with a stinker of a cold from being around babies and old folks and being in horrible weather in England.

Yesterday was Laddie's first ride in the outdoor arena since the autumn before he hurt himself, so about 18 months. I had underestimated the ice cold wind blowing across the valley from the mountains, so it was rather more exciting than I planned for--even my barn buddy's imperturbable QH was on the muscle.

Still, after hand-walking him around the arena half a dozen times and getting his brain a little settled, I got on and walked and trotted, then I got off. No-one died, which I consider to be progress (we are all very risk-averse at the moment what with our trainer's accident a couple of weeks ago.)

We have a little show next weekend. I'm not worried about the technical part--I had a great lesson with Uber-trainer on Saturday, but the environmental part could be interesting as it is now going to be crappy weather for the rest of the week, so getting him outside again and getting his head together will be complicated. I'm trying to get him back to being his happy self out and about prior to a big clinic next month...

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby khall » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:47 am

DJR glad all made it through ok, a good friend of mine in MN had a foot of snow Saturday. It was mid 80's here. What a wild and crazy winter it has been for many this year. Yuck for you all.

SF, Anna is a nice looking mare, really nice trot pic there. A bit painful for me since I lost my Anna (I called her Anna banana too) in 2016 to colic, my filly's dam. Glad you are having fun with your good girl. Anything on Pickles?

Chisamba I'm sorry you are dealing with what sounds like some serious issues with Deneb. I know the ovarian tumors/cysts can cause some nasty issues behaviorally for mares.

Flight wow nice video of Norsey! Hope he stays sound.

Mountaineer, can sympathize with no one died! LOL, sometimes that is a great ride.

I took Rip Friday to be scoped and have a lameness eval done (tend to do this annually) He scoped great with just his bit of cicatrix webbing that has been there for a bit. No issues with it so no worries. He did flex a bit off on his LH, especially his left hind fetlock. No telling what he has done, he can make me cringe both in lunging sometimes or his airs in the field when he is feeling his oats. We started him on adequan and will recheck in a couple of months. I don't feel anything under saddle, so hoping the adequan will be enough. He felt great when I rode him Saturday lightly. We will see.

Gaila checked out fine, so now I just need to figure out where I will send her. I have 3 options, I just need to decide which would be best for her so I can get her sold.

Our weather is up and down. Some beautiful days (which I don't always get to take advantage of due to life getting in the way) and some real doozies. Sunday was torrential rain with some T storms, today was wind from hell and much chillier! It is being a cool spring here for the most part.

Happy riding all and jingles for all who are dealing with horsey or other health issues.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Tsavo » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:32 am

khall wrote: He did flex a bit off on his LH, especially his left hind fetlock.


There is a school of thought saying hind flexions mean nothing and perhaps all flexions mean nothing.

3. Examination after provocation tests such as flexion tests: Flexion tests are believed to exacerbate pain and consequently movement asymmetry, thus helping to identify the affected limb. However, since flexion tests result in a high number of ‘false positives’ (Keg et al., 1997a, Keg et al., 1997b, Ramey, 1997, Verschooten and Verbeeck, 1997, Busschers and Van Weeren, 2001, Armentrout et al., 2011), they are controversial and regarded with caution by most veterinarians.

http://lamenesstrainer.com/GetStarted/C ... ation.html

I don't feel anything under saddle,


That's almost certainly a better assessment than hind flexions.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby DJR » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:36 pm

Well, for better or for worse I have put Jet & Panache in a Tom Dvorak clinic in 3 weeks. Neither horse is fit given the weather challenges we’ve had all winter and just this past week, but I’m told that he will work at the level of the horse in front of him. I rode Jet with him last fall and really liked his tutelage. We’ll see how it goes. Now I have to RIDE!!
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Dapple Field » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:45 pm

Chisamba, you probably know, but Lyme can cause horrid temperament changes.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby heddylamar » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:21 pm

I am still riding in a splint, but the wrist is definitely beginning to heal — the list of things that hurt has become shorter and shorter.

We had a fantastic ride yesterday morning. Maia was *lit* so I wasn't sure what I'd be dealing with under saddle, but I was able to direct the energy toward good. She was light on the bit, light on her feet, and a powerhouse off my leg :D Everything I've been asking for and getting bits of in pieces for the last many months all came together without fail. There was only one moment of her "make me" sour face attitude, which was quickly redirected.

Where has this mare been?? I just hope she comes out to play when I take her to our first show in May!

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Chisamba » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:36 pm

I have just been plodding along, in my own happy way, enjoying the journey. I had Mikhail take some snapshots of me today and i thought i would share. Trying to be objective, it would be nice to think we are improving.

the halt, yes, slay me, my hands are high

Image

hopefully an uphill lengthening at trot. ( hallelujah, straight line from elbow to bit) But it would be nice if i was sitting more upright, slay me.

Image

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Chisamba » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:40 pm

Some lateral work too. I think that focus on clear communication has helped, she still wants to anticipate things, and when she does, i re establish the preliminary work, and wait, and do it several times until she too waits, then i go on to the next thing.

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this one is blurry
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Chisamba » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:43 pm

DJR nothing like signing up for a clinic to get me focused, I hope you have a wonderful clinic.

Khall so glad to hear that RIP is doing well with the breathing, and that all was well

heddylamar, glad that the wrist is healing and that you had a nice ride

Mountaineer i can truly empathize with the " i am still alive" version of a ride

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Moutaineer » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:23 am

We had our "show prep lesson" outside this evening--still blowing a hooley, but warmer, and Laddie was really good, lots of up and forward but quite focused, until a giant tarp blew over the fence from the construction site next door. That put paid to our riding through our test completely :) but, again, no-one died and we got a couple of very nice forward, if rather boggle-eyed, medium trots afterwards! So, all the elements are in place, and have been ridden in a full size arena, and we'll see how it goes on Saturday.

We've been bewailing the demise of dressage locally, and how small show entries have become over the last few years. But this schooling show on Saturday, which has one ring, one judge, has 70 rides scheduled (poor judge!)

They are nearly all intro and training, with some first level and a handful of second level rides. I'm almost but not quite the last ride of the day, at 6.15pm... And, quite a lot of juniors, so there is some hope for the future! Even if the vast majority of them never go any further, they've given it a go, and the chances are that a few of them will stick with it.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Tsavo » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:33 pm

Chisamba that works looks very correct. Good photos (except the blurry one lol.

PS. Happy Birthday!

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:48 pm

A few cheers for this lovely gang of earnest horse people (please forgive me for exclusions---it is memory not a lack of appreciation!!):

-Hope you have a great schooling show, Mountaineer!
-Chiasamba, I always like the softness I see in your nice work. I do hope this is one horse you will get to keep.
-Imperini, it sounds like you and Pal have been doing fabulously! It is a lot to make a positive working relationship with a smart mare.
-SF, your view is mind-blowing and I think Anna is looking very good! Are you really glad you made the move to your new barn?
-DJR, I wish you good weather and many rides, soon! You are getting a "pile" of talented horses to keep in work. Maybe you need a working student/helper?!
-Khall, I await FC and other Rip updates soon.
-And Demi, I hope you are feeling better and soon back at work with the lovely Rocky and that your "student" and Emma are doing well together.

With the high winds we've had lately, I have been extra grateful to have dear Miss Emi as my partner. I board with all of these brave eventers, but they are pretty careful about riding out of the arena on their sparky mounts. I love to get out of the arena--and Emi is so willing to both tour and work--even when it feels like we're cantering into a standstill aka 30 mph winds!! :lol:

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby StraightForward » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:00 am

khall wrote: Anything on Pickles?


Thank you for asking but... le sigh. I went to see her today, and trainer was waiting to hold an in-person parent-teacher conference about Miss Pickle, who is so aptly named, unfortunately. Actually, she is Rosette to the trainer, which is probably for the best.

She apparently, out of nowhere, started bucking recently, when just walking on a loose rein, and almost dumped the trainer. This after random episodes of "grabbing herself" as the trainer phrases it, but not escalating from the tense and scoot. We are going to haul her back to Boise and see if we can find any physical problems. She was improving nicely into winter, then sort of stalled and has been having issues since. It will be a couple weeks until I can get her to the big vet hospital to get checked out, but my optimism is waning. Watching her move, there is no hint of unsoundness, and it's hard to imagine that anything is wrong, but she does have an odd area a couple vertebra before her dock, so we are going to have that checked out.
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby StraightForward » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:05 am

piedmontfields wrote:-SF, your view is mind-blowing and I think Anna is looking very good! Are you really glad you made the move to your new barn?


Yes, definitely a good move. The one challenge so far is that the outdoor arena is on about a 2% grade. Other horses don't seem bothered by it, but it tires Annabelle out, and her trot is stilted on the downhill side. However, the uphill side has its uses, and it's good for us to work in the smaller indoor, which is pretty close to a 20x40m arena. She and her neighbor, a cute 4 yo draft cross mare, are already BFFs, and she seems fat and happy there.
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby DJR » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:03 pm

Yay, our weather has FINALLY improved. It's warming up today and the long-range forecast shows nothing but double-digit highs, little precipitation, and above-zero lows. SO GLAD.

I intend to ride at least two horses today, perhaps more if time allows. The comment up-thread about considering a working student was intriguing to me, although I have NO idea what that would involve (I'm not an instructor so could only offer riding time in exchange for some light farm work).

Meanwhile, my 4-yr-old Hano/Shire gelding, Finn, continues to make good progress with his harness training. He has been out on the roads now in the training cart for the last two weeks and is doing really well. The trainer sends me regular updates and photos which I really appreciate since it's a 90-minute drive each way to go see him.

Here is Finn trit-trotting down the road quite happily.
2018Apr20 FinnDriving1.jpg
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And here he is meeting a large truck without batting an eye!
2018Apr20 FinnDriving3.jpg
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I LOVE the exposure that Finn is getting with this trainer. It's superb for a young horse. In another week or two he'll be put on the carriage and will be taken out on longer road excursions. Then he'll move on to under-saddle training with the same trainer. It looks like I'll be getting back a well-exposed, well-started youngster later this summer. I'm so happy!
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby DJR » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:35 am

Yay - I rode! It was gorgeous out there, sunny & warm (rode in my t-shirt).

Jet was first. He was huffing and puffing quite easily so I focused on suppleness, throughness, and inside leg to outside rein at the walk & trot. He has always had a tendency to hollow & fall into downward transitions so I made sure that every downward trans was forward & responsive. I didn't bother cantering as we had enough to do at the walk & trot

Then came Panache. I really don't know what has become of this boy. I lunged him first and it's a good thing I did, he was revving on high. It all seemed like spring fever to me (he did it before I caught him, too), and less like the spookiness/reactivity I was getting back in March. I've had him on Solace pellets (vit B complex) and Quiessence (Mg & Chromium) for the last month as well as a GI protectant (Gastro-FX), which seems to be helping. Nevertheless,I had to lunge him quite awhile to reinstall the "behave yourself" work ethic. At some points it felt more like I was flying a horse-shaped kite, not lunging!

At any rate, I managed to get him to listen and we finished with a sane, tempo-steady trot and canter both ways (instead of "tuck tail, fart & take off bucking"). I then got on him and he was foot-perfect and really listening - yay! We kept it to walk & trot because by then he was pretty tuckered out after the lunge-line shenanigans. But we worked on baby SI, baby travers, LY, and keeping his back up through the downward transitions. I was pleased with how he was the entire time I rode him.

I'm definitely feeling it in my legs now that the chores are done & I'm in my recliner. Nevermind the horses, *I* am super out of riding shape, too. The whole time I was riding I was thinking to myself, "just keep them going, somehow!!!" This off & on approach isn't working for me, or for them.
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Moutaineer » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:58 am

Well, that was an odd showing experience. I rode a respectable, quite conservative, but tidy test, with all the elements in place and no shenanigans, and got the worst score I've ever had. I've watched the video, and frankly, I'm puzzled--no, it wasn't going to set the world on fire, but it was decent. I've even checked I got the right score sheet.

I'm not normally one to complain about judging. I might feel a bit sore after a less than wonderful score, but normally, I can go back and look at the video with the test sheet and go "OK, fair enough, I get that." But this one was insulting. No more schooling shows for me. If I'm spending my precious time and money, I want a qualified opinion from a trained person.

Laddie was a total rock star, behaved himself beautifully and was a pleasure to be with and a joy to ride.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Chisamba » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:12 am

DJR I wrote a detailed response but it seems to have disappeared into the ether capacious.

Finn looks like he is getting fabulous exposure. Is he the colt you bred yourself by the warm blood stallion out of your shire mare?

Mountaineer, I do try to support schooling shows that use rated judges. Happy that your horse and test were good practice. I hope at least one comment was useful.

I am excited because I'm hosting a SRS bereiter clinic as my last hoorah in NJ. I'll give details when it's completely definite.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Kyra's Mom » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:46 am

StraightForward wrote:
khall wrote: Anything on Pickles?


Thank you for asking but... le sigh. I went to see her today, and trainer was waiting to hold an in-person parent-teacher conference about Miss Pickle, who is so aptly named, unfortunately. Actually, she is Rosette to the trainer, which is probably for the best.

She apparently, out of nowhere, started bucking recently, when just walking on a loose rein, and almost dumped the trainer. This after random episodes of "grabbing herself" as the trainer phrases it, but not escalating from the tense and scoot. We are going to haul her back to Boise and see if we can find any physical problems. She was improving nicely into winter, then sort of stalled and has been having issues since. It will be a couple weeks until I can get her to the big vet hospital to get checked out, but my optimism is waning. Watching her move, there is no hint of unsoundness, and it's hard to imagine that anything is wrong, but she does have an odd area a couple vertebra before her dock, so we are going to have that checked out.


Well...crap. Something seems to be going on with her. I would definitely get her back check out. Almost sounds like kissing spine (the grabbing herself). I hope not.

I envisioned riding a couple times this week...nah, that didn't happen. Kyra's BFF moved to another part of the farm and she got a new neighbor. Well apparently they don't get along at all. In the first two weeks I found wires down off the fence in between them but no horse damage to be seen. Yeah, until Wednesday. I went out and found one of the wires down again and mostly in Kyra's pen. She managed to de-hide a fair size patch on the inside of her hock on the right hind. Nothing deep. I cleaned it up and wrapped it for a couple days to keep the dust/dirt (wind blowing as always) and her tail out of it. I gave her a couple days off. If the boo-boo was looking good, I was going to ride yesterday. But then, I had a doctor's appt at 11:15. I haven't been taking my butt cushion because as long as I don't have to sit for any horrendously long times, I am doing fine without it. Well, 2 hours later, when I finally got out of the appointment, my butt was killing me so I didn't try to ride. I did however, work her at liberty in the round pen. Man, that horse is getting good. I worked her on transitions. She will do walk to canter from hand signals and canter to walk from voice(downwards just seem to work better with voice). She was moving quite well and seems genuinely pleased with herself. The only issue at first was getting her to not tip her head to the outside at canter...pretty typical for the RP. I 'lift' her belly using the whip and it usually straightens the lean and as soon as she straightens, she willingly stretches so I know I have gotten the point across. All at liberty...no strings attached. It is fun to play around with and she really is carrying herself quite well for no attachments like side reins.

Doctor thinks I need surgery to correct the bulging disc I have (of course he is a surgeon and he knows how to do that). I got him to give me 3 more weeks to do more pool therapy which I feel is helping. This last week has been the best since the sciatica started back in November. I still feel like a really old lady (I guess) but had a bit more energy and less leg pain so fingers crossed the progress continues and I can avoid surgery for now.

Chisamba...that looks like some lovely work.

Happy riding all.
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Chisamba » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:18 am

StraightForward wrote:
khall wrote: Anything on Pickles?


Thank you for asking but... le sigh. I went to see her today, and trainer was waiting to hold an in-person parent-teacher conference about Miss Pickle, who is so aptly named, unfortunately. Actually, she is Rosette to the trainer, which is probably for the best.

She apparently, out of nowhere, started bucking recently, when just walking on a loose rein, and almost dumped the trainer. This after random episodes of "grabbing herself" as the trainer phrases it, but not escalating from the tense and scoot. We are going to haul her back to Boise and see if we can find any physical problems. She was improving nicely into winter, then sort of stalled and has been having issues since. It will be a couple weeks until I can get her to the big vet hospital to get checked out, but my optimism is waning. Watching her move, there is no hint of unsoundness, and it's hard to imagine that anything is wrong, but she does have an odd area a couple vertebra before her dock, so we are going to have that checked out.


If she was progressing in the winter and got complicated in the spring I wouldn't count hormones out.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Tsavo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:39 pm

Susan, I am on a tab and can't quote easily.

In re surgery for herniated disc, I am not a surgeon and don't know any particulars of your case but I can tell you this type of surgery is considered the most over used. People often have more pain afterward and there is a risk if he fuses a level that you will be on a path towards more levels fused. There is at least one top surgeon who noticed all these surgeries he was doing we're not helping and has since stopped completely and gotten into pain research. The problem is not in the spine per see but also in the pain response. That is why some people can have large scoliosis curves and yet have no pain.

Please get another option. Maybe you do have a case that benefits from surgery. And maybe you don't.
Last edited by Tsavo on Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Rosie B » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:57 pm

Well I missed the Cindy Ishoy clinic due to a runny nose with no other symptoms... I didn't want to stress him by travelling and then the clinic itself.

But I have been riding and I'm happy with how he's going generally. My seat has taken a bit of a step back because I haven't been hitting the gym like I should. I've been focusing on getting and keeping him in front of the leg, and more recently on making sure I'm getting honest bend. I'm also tentatively planning to do a show at the end of May.. thinking of doing 1st 2 and 2nd 1.

Here's a couple pics and a video from yesterday. Comments welcome. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpJ95Yyhq30&t=29s
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Re: Get some spring in your step - March/April Goals & Progress

Postby Kyra's Mom » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:57 pm

Tsavo said: In re surgery for herniated disc, I am not a surgeon and don't know any particulars of your case but I can tell you this type of surgery is considered the most over used. People often have more pain afterward and there is a risk if he fuses a level that you will be on a path towards more levels fused.

I am well aware of the slippery slope of back surgery. My father had 4 back surgeries. Plus, I work at a hospital and yes, we do back surgeries by the hundreds :P . That is why I am waiting and continuing therapy although it isn't just a pain issue as I have weakness on that side also. I have healed another herniated disc without surgery. I was golden after 4 months. This one (bulging) is still problematic after 5 months and the numbness in my foot affects my balance...which is bad because the other foot has some permanent numbness from a foot surgery. Lots of things to think about for sure. I already do stretching, yoga, deep breathing and floating (great for relaxation and pain relief) and for 2 solid months I did massage which mostly made me more sore...all over although I love cupping. That felt so good. Yes, I am a tight one. First PT we did e-stim and ultrasound. The pool therapy seems to be working well and I am getting some function back hence why I am continuing with that. Surgery is not my first choice by a long shot.


Rosie, Bliss is looking much more connected. He is such a handsome guy.

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