I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

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Chisamba
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I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby Chisamba » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:41 pm

Have you watched the freestyle of Charlotte's on Mount St John. She's a lovely rider, and it's a 81, scoring ride .

So my questions are not related to trainer bashing etc.

Do you think dressage will ever come back from the manufactured trot?

Did the canter and walk regularly show lateral and then four beat tendencies.? So the question is will we ever come back to valuing rhythm and tempo.

I think I still love riding and training dressage but I seem to have lost the joy in watching the top. Maybe I'm just jealous because i cannot "develop" the hairs in that way.

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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby kande50 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:06 pm

First you'd have to buy a horse with a tendency to that kind of movement, which is not a reasonable option for most of us because the horses we already have and our families need places to live. :-)

And besides, I don't want to damage my horses to win prizes, so am perfectly happy to work toward modest "Classical" Dressage goals with horses I can afford rather than trying to emulate those who have different goals.

I think that as soon as people realize what's going on in competitive dressage then they have to decide which path they're going to choose.

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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby Dresseur » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:08 pm

At the top, no, I think we will be stuck with that trot on the international stage. I can spot rhythm and tempo irregularities in most top horses, and it all stems from issues with how collection is developed imo. I certainly can't produce that trot, nor do I want to. I rarely watch international dressage videos, but I find a lot of joy in seeing people progress on a regional and national level.

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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby Abby Kogler » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:44 pm

I don't think you are grumpy and I have the same feelings of disappointment.

I think that there is a t least discussion regarding these issues and perhaps if people/judges/competitors/officials continue to speak up things may change. I think it is up to us, the hoi polloi, to keep poking the sacred dressage bears. There are trainers and riders and judges at top levels who don't like this either.

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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby Moutaineer » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:23 pm

That spidery, flashy trot is not my cup of tea at all. The passage was nice though, the piaffe better than most but not perfect (we shouldn't expect perfection in another living beast, I don't think) and I'm not seeing a big issue with the canter.

It all looked a bit tense--MSJ Freestyle is still fairly inexperienced at this level, I think? I wonder if that led to some of the tempo irregularities and leg flinging in the trot? She obviously has a natural inbred tendency towards that kind of movement.

I look at International competition as being an entirely different thing to "dressage for the rest of us." Interesting to watch, but not for the likes of me to attempt to emulate.

The scoring is different too nowadays--starts from a different base as far as I can tell. So an 80? Yes, a good score, but not breathtaking any longer. (Can you imagine if you scored an 80 at one of our regional shows?)

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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby khall » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:28 pm

chisamba the horses are being bred for that trot very often. I've seen it in foals when I've attended the GOV inspections. I do think the training emphasizes this type of trot even more, with bunting the horse forward then grabbing them back. It reminds me more of a saddle horse than dressage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ePmck-xtRw

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Chisamba
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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby Chisamba » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:16 pm

Khall, it totally reminds me of saddle seat trot.

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Flight
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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby Flight » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:54 pm

I don't think there's any coming back from how dressage is now. As Khall said, the breeding is big business to create horses with these gaits already there. I often wonder if I should keep pushing Ding along to compete, he's not got that natural ability at all. But I'm never going to afford a specially bred dressage horse.

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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby Moutaineer » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:58 am

Flight, you have a lovely and correct horse and you do a very find job of riding him.

I don't think what we see in the international dressage ring is representative of dressage as a whole. It's an entirely different level of "thing."

We strive to do the best at what we can do. We don't give up because we can't be the "best in the world," whatever that means.

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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby orono » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:01 am

I don't enjoy watching it either, I can't relate to it or hope to aspire to it. Maybe I was naive in my younger days, or had a less developed eye, but I could watch the top horses and riders and find some (distant) similarities - or at least goals to aspire too. I don't feel like that's the case anymore.

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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby Josette » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:16 am

Ditto - I'm not interested to watch International level competitions at all and I also cannot relate to it. I definitely do not aspire to that level of riding or the style. Years ago, I saw the SRS when they were doing tours across the USA. They were more inspiring as I admired the equitation of the riders and beautiful horses. OT - but I like seeing a 3rd - PSG horse go in a snaffle bridle while light in the aids and even ridden spurless. Now that impresses me more and I enjoy watching a talented horse/rider at that level. I'm indifferent to piaffe and passage - sometimes it looks so artificial and forced.

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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby HafDressage » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:13 am

So I haven't watched the specific ride you are talking about, but I very likely agree based on the other rides of this combo I've watched. The piaffe and passage is better than Valegro, but everything else is not and is being way over scored. The extensions are all up front and nothing behind.

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Flight
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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby Flight » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:48 am

Moutaineer wrote:Flight, you have a lovely and correct horse and you do a very find job of riding him.


Thanks Moutaineer :)

Although watching the local competition here, there are some really nice horses being bred, some people importing them etc. There was one local horse that I just loved (but probably would never have been good enough to ride) and I heard he sold for $120K !!

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KathyK
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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby KathyK » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:51 pm


demi
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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby demi » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:14 pm

That was beautiful! Just beautiful. The transitions from the different trots! Thanks for sharing.

I neeed to start watching competition dressage again. It’s getting much better. That horse looked so elegant to me that at first I just assumed it was a mare. Then I looked closer and it appears to be a gelding. I could be wrong. No matter, still very elegant and none of that artificial looking flashy flingy front legs (did you see what I did there :lol: the alliteration).

I will book mark this ride.

Sue B
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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby Sue B » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:45 pm

Yeah, I like Sonke's horse because he just looks like a "normal" horse.

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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby khall » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:58 pm

KathyK I love that horse! Such expression yet not the tension I see with the manufactured trots (which I am not fond of). I really enjoyed watching that test, spectacular horse with a lovely quiet rider.

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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby Nikiwink » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:26 pm

I couldnt stop watching his tail :)

So lovely to watch and i don't watch or like watching much top level dressage anymore either.

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Rosie B
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Re: I'm probably just grumpy but would like opinions.

Postby Rosie B » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:38 pm

I also really enjoyed this. I think I commented on the COTH thread on it as well. :)


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