Dental Question

Benatus
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Dental Question

Postby Benatus » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:44 pm

This is a new one one me.

Albert has been living at the same barn for well over 5 years.

The hay is local grown, so not great.

During his dental his teeth had an issue. I was told the hay gets up into his gums and causes issues.

I've never noticed this, but I can't understand it and it's flipping me out.

vet says he needs antibiotics (no temp, nothing but a bright eye and full of fizz, normal for a 17 year old)
barn owner said it looks like warts.

I have read that it's bad hay, but I don't know if this is new or old.

The vet mentioned removing his teeth!!! (I am flipping out because of his history with his upper teeth being removed by a zealous vet back in the day when he was getting his big teeth in.)

I've been using saline daily to clean his mouth and then using a soft rag to "brush" his teeth. He enjoys the rag, and his gums aren't as bad as the photo attached.

They have a problem with cheatgrass, but they are working on it, though it's been worse this last hay season.

I really need some help.

I can pop for $180 in shots for antibiotics, but does he have something worse than equine gingivitis?

I can move him to a barn with better hay, just not the best care.


I've attached a photo. Sorry for the fuzzy.

dental.jpg
dental.jpg (100.05 KiB) Viewed 493 times


Right now the vet is so arrogant because she speaker-phoned me and dropped some terms I could barely understand, much less try to rewrite here.

Do I just need to buy hay? Where do people store their hay if they buy it and don't have a garage or room at the barn? (I fear theft, too)


Thanks, I trust you guys, so I'm throwing all out there.

redsoxluvr
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Re: Dental Question

Postby redsoxluvr » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:11 pm

Reach out to krazytbmare, she has experience with this and I am sure would help you.

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Chisamba
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Re: Dental Question

Postby Chisamba » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Soaked Timothy pellets or hay stretcher? I dont have experience with the problem just trying to offer a potential suggestion

Josette
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Re: Dental Question

Postby Josette » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:31 pm

https://thehorse.com/110622/feeding-the-eotrh-horse/

This is a very painful condition and I had the surgery performed on my elderly TB to remove his front teeth. A change in diet was required but he was made comfortable and able to eat. There was a long post here on this topic as another owner also did the surgery on her horse. Excellent recovery too.

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Re: Dental Question

Postby Josette » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:33 pm

The other owner was highoctane with a TB too who had the surgery. If you search on EOTRH you will find the posts under several topics.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1921&p=31071&hilit=EOTRH#p31071

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Chisamba
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Re: Dental Question

Postby Chisamba » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:53 pm

the picture does not represent EORTH

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Re: Dental Question

Postby Josette » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:33 pm

IMO the vet makes the call and it appears he suspects this is the problem. The horse is of the age when EOTRH starts to present itself - more so in geldings too. A second vet opinion can also be gotten.

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Fatcat
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Re: Dental Question

Postby Fatcat » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:13 am

Ick, it looks like cheatgrass is getting embedded in his gums! :shock: I'd feed soaked hay cubes until I could move to another barn which feeds proper horse hay.
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Chisamba
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Re: Dental Question

Postby Chisamba » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:19 am

Josette wrote:IMO the vet makes the call and it appears he suspects this is the problem. The horse is of the age when EOTRH starts to present itself - more so in geldings too. A second vet opinion can also be gotten.


but Benatus said nothing about the vet saying it was EORTH, the original post says its cheat grass gum embedding. maybe i missed a post? I am not attempting to be dischordant

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Flight
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Re: Dental Question

Postby Flight » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:48 am

Might be worth asking about EOTRH? The shape of the teeth look similar to pics I've seen? Might need an xray?

Why do you say it's not Chisamba? I haven't personally seen EOTRH. The vet suggesting the horse needs teeth removed says she is suspicious of it.

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Re: Dental Question

Postby Benatus » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:02 am

Hi guys. Vet has broken my last nerve. She calls it EOTRH.

Don’t google diseases of yourself? Well don’t google diseases of your horse. Trying not to cry.

I see why the b/o thinks it’s warts, bc of theissue being all bumpy.

I am call the vet school tomorrow. Xrays are the next step to see if the teeth are asorbing (new word, basically not 100% what is happening) into the body and losing integrity.

I’m on my phone so forgive the typos.

Thanks for the links, I appreciate them.

Albert likes his gentle dentle woping I am doing to get hay out.

It’s semi insane.

Top it off, every farmer has planted canola fields and it really stinks on a warm evening.

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Re: Dental Question

Postby Josette » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:24 am

Benatus - sorry to hear you are going through this with your horse. The retracted gums look suspicious to me and very possible those gum gaps are inflamed with cheat grass seeds. That is a new one for me being on the east coast - never heard of it but did google it. Know that several of us here have dealt with dental issues too. Pursue further vet evaluations to help you proceed caring for your guy. Best wishes

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Chisamba
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Re: Dental Question

Postby Chisamba » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:17 am

Okay, so it is EORTH. I had this experience with one boarders horse, and one friends horse.

From my limited experience of two, the horse that had all his teeth removed at once lived a long happy comfortable life and is still happy.

The one who chose to only remove one tooth at a time the horse was miserable and passed away from diet related issues.

The photo to me does not look like the EORTH I have seen. In the cases I saw the cementosis was packed and layered around the top of the tooth and the gums were not sliced and diced .

I would change his hay and seek a second opinion.

If your second opinion confirms hypercementosis, do not be afraid of extraction.

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Re: Dental Question

Postby Benatus » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:04 pm

Thanks all!!

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musical comedy
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Re: Dental Question

Postby musical comedy » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:32 pm

Could it be peridontal disease with receding gums that are allowing this odd hay to pack and cause infections and sores? Xrays will confirm EORTH. I don't know if it can be confirmed otherwise, but maybe. I would want the xrays before I would agree to extraction. I

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Re: Dental Question

Postby Josette » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:10 pm

Yes - The x-rays will provide confirmation and provide any other information. That is the best and most logical next step.

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Re: Dental Question

Postby texsuze » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:17 pm

I second the second opinion, with oral x-rays. One step at a time is the way to go. Be sure to ask this next (vet school) vet about how many cases of EOTRH and/or gum conditions they've seen or tend to see. I had to travel to the next largest city to find a dental vet who (a) had the appropriate x-ray setup and (b) who had seen enough cases of EOTRH to make an accurate diagnosis for my old guy.

Hoping this is a straightforward case of 'something or another' and you can move forward with a plan.

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Re: Dental Question

Postby musical comedy » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:28 pm

texsuze wrote:I second the second opinion, with oral x-rays. One step at a time is the way to go. Be sure to ask this next (vet school) vet about how many cases of EOTRH and/or gum conditions they've seen or tend to see. I had to travel to the next largest city to find a dental vet who (a) had the appropriate x-ray setup and (b) who had seen enough cases of EOTRH to make an accurate diagnosis for my old guy.
What kind of special x-ray setup is required. My xrays were just taken with a digital machine. They put in those pieces like the human dentists do.

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Re: Dental Question

Postby Benatus » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:56 pm

Thanks so much Texsuze, I will get in touch with them very soon.

Albert has a big hay bin that he flips around, it's not rubber, but a hardened rubber plastic. I hope this isn't part of it. I'll update after I have a conversation with a vet I know who works at the school.

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Flight
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Re: Dental Question

Postby Flight » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:18 pm

I don't think they know the cause of it. Keeping fingers crossed for Albert and hoping he'll be ok, it's so stressful when something is wrong with them.

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Re: Dental Question

Postby texsuze » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:37 am

Musical,
no special equipment, except my regular vet didn't have a mouth speculum or the type of digital x-ray plates he would've liked to have. He managed to 'eek' out one o.k. film for a tooth extraction, but I then went to a dental vet for a more extensive workup.

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Re: Dental Question

Postby acheyarcher » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:11 pm

this is all new information to me. Learning a lot

a second opinion from the vet school or someone well experienced would be valuable to get you information you can count on. Not having a good working relationship ( communication) with your vet is not helping

if it is some other autoimmune or contact issue;
change hay to higher quality,
change out the feed tub away from plastic. In cats plastics can exacerbate inflammatory face and mouth issues. Cannot harm might help to go to all rubber or metal

for mouth rinse consider adding aloe to the salt water. In people salt and aloe rinses can be quite therapeutic, in some situations performing as well as chlorhexidine rinses.

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Re: Dental Question

Postby Benatus » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:04 am

Update: wsu vet on Monday. Fingerscrossed.

Bo told me her horse went theough extraction and if she had it to do over she’d have put him sown.
Just doing xrays and prognosis now.

Fawk.

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Re: Dental Question

Postby musical comedy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:19 am

Benatus wrote:Update: wsu vet on Monday. Fingerscrossed.

Bo told me her horse went theough extraction and if she had it to do over she’d have put him sown.
Just doing xrays and prognosis now.

Fawk.
Really? Why? There is one poster on here (I forget her name) that had it done and horse did great. I've read a couple others on COTH that had it done and also very happy and one is even showing.

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Re: Dental Question

Postby Benatus » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:04 am

Update!!

Such a week!!

Albert got the X-rays, doc said there is a very early stage of the disease, but it’s so small. Only one section of one tooth shows faint signs of resorption(sp)

I will bring him back next year to do it again to see how it’s progressing.

Not hay related and the saline cleaning has helped his gums heel. She says his tight upper lip exacerbates it.

She suggests a bosal rather than a bit, which should be fine.

They treated him like a rock star. He was super to load and unload, so it made the day go better.

I know that it isn’t perfect, but it is close.

Thanks

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Flight
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Re: Dental Question

Postby Flight » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:33 am

That's a good update! So glad you've found it in the early stages. Fingers crossed he stays ok :)


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